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Topic: Feedback on Articles
Replies: 1,148 Pages: 77 Last Post: Dec 6, 2005 8:40 PM by: jaime longoria

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Replies: 1,148 Pages: 77 [ Previous \| 1 ... 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 \| Next ]

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 11:24 AM

You never know whos doing the actual mailing. I did the stickering for my work a few months back, and drew a tiny bird on JML's coupon thinger. Lots of thoughts and ideas getting bounced around in here, probably less appropriation going on, and its all recorded, dated, signed anyways.

I've seen several hundred frames of film exposed by Soth, and they were all exposed very nicely, especially considering his methods, or what I have understood them to be. He is one where photography meets art. And I have nothing to gain in giving that respect.

It seems like we are at an intersection with art, criticsm, the recognition of revenue generated, and the exploding cultural impacts on it all. Anything and everything is'nt about to happen, it IS happening...

Please continue, but 10x it...

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 12:08 PM

> Two quick points on the fly.

Def.: a winged insect that gives birth to maggots,...

> First, you often have to understand context to
> understand the point of view of a writer on art.

Second: I always understand Artists are out of the point of any context.

For
> instance, someone writing catalogue copy for an
> artist's show at some gallery or museum is not going
> to pick apart that work. My piece on Soth posted a
> few months ago on mnartists.org was such a
> promotional piece,

As are most of your reviews; they advance the institution at the expense of the artists community you have claimed that you "loved".

as it was a public presentation of
> his work for the Trialogue series. That is, it was by
> design a positive discussion of his work, its
> importance and effect--and not per se a critical
> review of his work.

There are always excuses for our lack of control of our sins of ommission, remeber and Judas and his silver; he meant well and still the mythology of the Christ the victim was unleased on the new world. Peace be to you my brother.

(The mnartists.org reprinting of
> the text from that presentation amounts then to de
> facto gallery catalogue copy for the show.)

The show was a failure, as is the"Trialblog" VACUM closed circle. It is a disgrace to all Democratic ideals that Minnesota Artists claim to have.

> Second, for the record, on the "Triablog" VACUM
> response to last fall's political art show I actually
> did point out the bulldog poster (and several other
> works by the same artist) as examples of refreshingly
> and shocking anti-"mainstream" works in that show.
> Just want to keep the record straight for those
> keeping score at home.

Mikey: 2000
US: zip

coyote infinity
Chicano Artist de Minnesota

Shawn Holster

Posts: 74
Registered: Nov 22, 2004

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 12:35 PM

Open question....What do y'all think of the concept of more artists writing articles on the arts as an alternative/ in addition to leaving all the ink and ideas to the critics and journalists? And who would print it?

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 1:11 PM

> Open question....What do y'all think of the concept
> of more artists writing articles on the arts as an
> alternative/ in addition to leaving all the ink and
> ideas to the critics and journalists? And who would
> print it?

I think it a bad idea. Cricticism is it's own art form with it's own craft. You need to master the craft before you practice the artform at it's highest level.

Our problem in Minnesota is the curuption of the craft by Institutional manipulation. The Critic Communityu itself needs to rise up with courage and start to write real criticism. Not fluff that advances thier careers, butr the real clear stuff that Artists can use to make decisions about the future of individual art.

coyote infinity
chicano Artist de Minnesota

Shawn Holster

Posts: 74
Registered: Nov 22, 2004

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 1:34 PM

Footnote- Artists not writing as critics; topic oriented. Aethstetics, form, composition, material use, determining subject matter, process, etc....as a means of expanding discourse and understanding, accessability, etc......?

Curtis James Ingvoldstad

Posts: 143
From: St. Paul, MN
Registered: Aug 28, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 2:12 PM

From my perspective if you ever took an art history class and DIDN'T want to throw up then you are qualified to read art criticism

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 7:08 PM

> Footnote- Artists not writing as critics; topic
> oriented. Aethstetics, form, composition, material
> use, determining subject matter, process, etc....as a
> means of expanding discourse and understanding,
> accessability, etc......?

That is what has been done here, all over the forums; a little undirected but quite well spoken.

But it is an "open forum" people "listen" to what interests them and skip what does not. It is very free and democratic.
Just dig in. Those that agree/disagree will come in and keep you company and then you just might also get ignored.

coyote infinity
chicano Artist de Minnesota

Michael Fallon

Posts: 201
Registered: Jul 3, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 10:43 PM

edit

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 12:06 AM

But as I have posited before, what do you expect from the academy where, since deconstruction invaded literary criticism thirty years hence and where it could have remained having little more than a benign effect on our culture, Derrida and Baudrillard have developed throughout the soft schools of study the drumbeat of arcane critical thinking. Critical, that is, of everything excepting critical thinking itself. And of course the problem with Deconstruction has always been that it can be deconstructed thus bringing nowhere, or Utopia. Bellow nailed these guys in "Humbolt's Gift" with the phrase, "the mental rabble of the wised-up world." I think I read that somewhere, and it fits perfectly in so many cases.

Lesli Smith

Posts: 20
From: MN
Registered: Mar 5, 2004

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 9:49 AM

Shawn,

Have you read "Conversation Starter: Mel Bochner on the Republished Writings of Donald Judd" in the current Artforum? (BTW: To answer the question posed here about who reads art criticism in art mags anyway, I do. I'm not even an artist myself. I married into this crazy establishment over a decade ago and have been trying to learn the language ever since.)

If not, you should. Here are a few interesting quotes that I think tie in with the conversation happening here:

“What made his reviews exciting to read was that he wrote with the immediacy of a war correspondent. By sending home dispatches from the front lines of contemporary art, he became that most valuable of literary companions: someone worth arguing with” (Bochner 70).

“Judd opened up art writing, showing that it didn't deserve its bad name as a literary form and that it could establish the grounds for a public discourse among artists” (70).

“The inmates had realized that if they couldn't quite take over the asylum, they could at least talk to each other through the bars” (70).

Now, as for Fallon's caution that you might find it difficult to get "ink," perhaps that's true. Judd was established before he started writing, as was Bochner. However, it seems to me that this site has been set up to provide a place for "the inmates" to "talk to each other through the bars." As I am an example of someone who has followed this thread for some time as a "lurker" waiting for a conversation I was interested in joining, you can be sure of a wider audience than it seems by the posts. That alone should give us some encouragement. It's not a perfect system, but it is a venue.

I agree with Jaime that artists shouldn't be the only ones writing. Other viewpoints need to be added. The audience should be/is(?) wider than the population working directly in the arts fields (curating, making, selling, writing, studying), but the writing right now doesn't seem to reflect this diversity.

Speaking of diversity, did anyone read Gibney's recently posted article on the Civic Engagement question? Loved it. She asks some tough questions. We need more of that in this town.

Lesli

Curtis James Ingvoldstad

Posts: 143
From: St. Paul, MN
Registered: Aug 28, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 11:39 AM

I think Mr. Fallon that you are an important part of bring art to the community. My snide comment is tongue in cheek and is directed towards the artists who don't need an art history class to see what an artist is portraying and what is important about the work. I wish you were less temporamental about the subject so that this conversation could be a bit more fun and alot less personal. Thinking back to what I have always love about visual communication and art is the discovery and the way it leads my mind in to a new understanding whether it is the artist intent or not. That is because I have an actively creative mind and can see an artists work as made for me to view. What you do is for those that don't want to let the mind run or need a jump start to get their mind pumping. YOu help frame the work and help them see it. I think that must require some objectivity, right? I respect that even if my comment doesn't reflect that. I wasn't trying to offend you. But I would love to motivate you to write more articles in all kinds of different papers. How about the local neighborhood and city papers. It seems they lack the high quality content you could provide as am art insider. What is it with you are you jaded? or are you giving up because you not creative enough? Sounds familiar and sounds like your in the same boat with the artist that aren't getting written about. Why not write an article about Bob, Jamie, Gabe or anyone else you can think of, now there is a challenge. Or is it unsafe to cover "certain artists" if so why? and who said life was safe?

I love the discussion and greatly anticipate the answer.

Curtis

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 1:17 PM

> I think Mr. Fallon that you are an important part of
> bring art to the community. My snide comment is
> tongue in cheek and is directed towards the artists
> who don't need an art history class to see what an
> artist is portraying and what is important about the
> work. I wish you were less temporamental about the
> subject so that this conversation could be a bit more
> fun and alot less personal. Thinking back to what I
> have always love about visual communication and art
> is the discovery and the way it leads my mind in to a
> new understanding whether it is the artist intent or
> not. That is because I have an actively creative
> mind and can see an artists work as made for me to
> view. What you do is for those that don't want to
> let the mind run or need a jump start to get their
> mind pumping. YOu help frame the work and help them
> see it. I think that must require some objectivity,
> right? I respect that even if my comment doesn't
> reflect that. I wasn't trying to offend you. But I
> would love to motivate you to write more articles in
> all kinds of different papers. How about the local
> neighborhood and city papers. It seems they lack the
> high quality content you could provide as am art
> insider. What is it with you are you jaded? or are
> you giving up because you not creative enough?
> Sounds familiar and sounds like your in the same
> boat with the artist that aren't getting written
> about. Why not write an article about Bob, Jamie,
> Gabe or anyone else you can think of, now there is a
> challenge. Or is it unsafe to cover "certain
> artists" if so why? and who said life was safe?
>
> I love the discussion and greatly anticipate the
> answer.
>
> Curtis

Lux Lumen lives!!!!!

Shawn Holster

Posts: 74
Registered: Nov 22, 2004

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 1:52 PM

Why yes, Lesli, I have read that article, it was one of a few that I've read over the course of the last few weeks that inspired me to pose the question, as well as some of the more thoughtful comments posted on this forum. It strikes me that the criti-centric nature of arts discussion in general is becoming more and more counter productive; it seems that by it's nature it inspires hackled reaction and point counterpoint that swiftly spirals into name calling and veers way off the initial idea of thoughtful and thought inspiring critique that challenges as instead of simply deriding the work or it's producer. The jaded or synical or apathetic or defeatist tones seem to be all the rage, makes it difficult to stay interested...but hey, a little optimism and self reliance and determination just might fill that void, as is evidenced here and throughout history. Who wants to become engaged with something thats constantly having it's flaws pointed out and magnified? What part of a larger audience is going to be attracted to a media where the only writing being done about it professes about how all of it sucks? There seems to be no work shortage for music critics, performing arts critics, movie critics, critics of any other media. Makes me wonder if it's not partially due to an occasional good review? There is interest, there is a desire to have thoughtful critique and discourse, and if the 'critics' are only going to spit bitter and defeatist little beans, isn't it 'appropriate' to move the discussion along by involving more that just the bitter bean spitters? If we want broader interest in our efforts, seems logical to me to quit relying on anyone to move our efforts forward other than ourselves. I'm not singling you out specifically Mr.Fallon, but man-why are you so jaded? What is it with critics in general? If y'all aren't casting a greenish light on something it's not worth the time? It's just something my simple little monkey mind has a hard time wrapping itself around....

Michael Fallon

Posts: 201
Registered: Jul 3, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 3:36 PM

edit

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 3:50 PM

Rock on Sisters and Brothers.

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