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Topic: Feedback on Articles
Replies: 1,148   Pages: 77   Last Post: Dec 6, 2005 8:40 PM by: jaime longoria

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Jim Grafsgaard

Posts: 15
Registered: Feb 19, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 5, 2005 11:30 PM
  Reply

Re:
<Posted: Mar 28, 2005 4:05 PM
I am wondering about the quality of thought in our communal exchange.
Has it improved over our intial establishment of this post?

coyote infinity>

The above appears to be a valid question, to which I have seen no replies. Allow me to offer my perspective...

I have not been involved since the "initial establishment of this post". However, I note:
- the subject of this thread is officially "Feedback on Articles". I have seen (in my limited participation) very little that is specifically tied to any "Articles".
- Certain contributors appear to be very active (Ray Rolfe, Posts: 2,444 / Gabriel Combs, Posts: 1,174 / jaime longoria, Posts: 900 / Sam Spiczka, Posts: 1,464). This is not bad in itself, just revealing as to who is participating (and begs the question: Why do they participate?). I don't know if the counters are accurate.
- Many of the postings I have read leave me baffled. Perhaps it is partly because of my lack of experience in this mode of discussion. But it is also obvious that certain posters do not proof-read nor edit their writing before hitting the "Post Message" button; they throw in references which are not widely understood nor explained; quote other posts without proper pointers to the original; and give the impression of being more interested in the Play of participation rather than the Work of communication.

En fin, my opinion is that the "the quality of thought in our communal exchange" could be improved.

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 6, 2005 1:20 AM
  Reply

Welcome, Jim. Thanks for stopping in to participate. Feel free to give feedback on the articles also. I agree that they don't get enough attention. I just read the Julia Durst article on Suzanne Szucs before work yesterday. I have'nt seen the show though. I think its interesting the way Suzanne breaks up her work and spends so much time on carrrying the project through. I don't have too much to say about it all though, as it was the first article i've read by Julia Durst, and probably won't make it to the show.

I ask myself why I participate here on a regular basis. The thread gets hi-jacked because its not grounded in regular use otherwise. None of the threads really are. Its free space. I think I probably continue contributing because I enjoy it, and I have faith in this whole project of mnartists.org. Here, they've given us something. This is better than the free calander the city of Minneapolis sends out. (which I did'nt get this year)

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 6, 2005 9:27 AM
  Reply

> Re:
> <Posted: Mar 28, 2005 4:05 PM
> I am wondering about the quality of thought in our
> communal exchange.
> Has it improved over our intial establishment of this
> post?
>
> coyote infinity>
>
> The above appears to be a valid question, to which I
> have seen no replies. Allow me to offer my
> perspective...
>
> I have not been involved since the "initial
> establishment of this post". However, I note:
> - the subject of this thread is officially "Feedback
> on Articles". I have seen (in my limited
> participation) very little that is specifically tied
> to any "Articles".

Welcome Jim to the "play". This is not a "blog" format that is controled by a singular ego or group. The beauty of these post is that very different and very real people can come into this space and "speak" freely. Those of us who seem to be "regulars" have over time created a "community" of sorts. The Nature of conversations on posts is beyond the control of any single person. That is a very beautiful thing. If you will recall your own oppression in other "artists spaces"(Artrujillo comes to mine) you can perhap appreciate that we accept each other in our own individual "voice". This is "real" democracy of discussion in a very undemocratic time in Minnesota Art history.

There are some that will agree with you that we should "stay to topic" in there "control issue world" I am sure they are right. But this is truly "free space". Most of those people would not understand the beauty of the MAS posts. In my harshly critical oppinion of art( and you have suffered my criticism of your work so you can gage that I do not give praise easily) the MAS posts are some best written responses to articles that this post is themed around.

> - Certain contributors appear to be very active (Ray
> Rolfe, Posts: 2,444 / Gabriel Combs, Posts: 1,174 /
> jaime longoria, Posts: 900 / Sam Spiczka, Posts:
> 1,464). This is not bad in itself, just revealing as
> to who is participating (and begs the question: Why
> do they participate?).

Each of us has his own reason.
I utilize this great venue to commune with the Artists that seek ideas on art. It has amazed me how "read" "Coyote" in all of it's forms. Although the "counters" can be manipulated, I have recieved enough "out of the Blue" emails from "lurkers" telling me that they enjoy our exchanges with much interest. I email about 15 regular "Coyote" followers when ever I engage anyone in an interesting "play of ideas".

I don't know if the counters
> are accurate.
> - Many of the postings I have read leave me baffled.
> Perhaps it is partly because of my lack of experience
> in this mode of discussion. But it is also obvious
> that certain posters do not proof-read nor edit their
> writing before hitting the "Post Message" button;
> they throw in references which are not widely
> understood nor explained; quote other posts without
> proper pointers to the original; and give the
> impression

"...impressions are a sign of a subjective disconnect,.... What is in front of you, that truly is new, is often baffling because of the person's lack of experience. But given time and an open heart on life can be understood. You need only to open your mind and leave your old grudges behind.

coyote infant at play"

of being more interested in the Play of
> participation rather than the Work of communication.
>
>
> En fin, my opinion is that the "the quality of
> f thought in our communal exchange" could be
> improved.

Each day Jim when I undertake my daily defecation I attempt to "improve", but sadly, in brutal honesty ofself evaluation I find it is pretty much the same old stuff, just different day.

FYI This post almost died. It was revived by a "play". It is hard work to keep Artists interested in meaningful issues when thier careers call.

It is a chitty job but some has to do it.

Some of us have lost long posts due to the "Spell Check" gremlins, so we are intent on impressing you with "lit. Stylings" that is best left to the "writers". We are more intent in talking about the worthless bribble of rah rah criticism. We are more intested in "ideas". Can you handle that Jim?
We are hear not patt each other on the back, but to the get at ideas; style and form of writing really don't matter here; it is "content" that is important. So welcome Jim.

And let's see what you really think about Art Ideas.

coyote infinity

Jim Grafsgaard

Posts: 15
Registered: Feb 19, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 6, 2005 7:27 PM
  Reply

Thanks for the welcome! I appreciate the honesty of the replies, and the challenge to be honest. As well as the challenge to improve and grow.

I recognize that this is an organic format, and by joining in I also have an effect on the community. The effect is a LOT like the bacteria exchanging genetic information in surprising ways in order to evolve, which Sam was referencing in the other Forum thread "Value of Community".

Yes Don Coyote, I can handle the interest in "ideas" (or Art Ideas, I suppose altho capitalized that seems a bit overblown...like the conceit of professionals for their chosen professions). That is why I took the trouble to post, and to encourage better communication - because I value the intellectual intercourse these Forums offer. I hold no grudges. My trust is actually quite easily gained or regained - some people think I am too easy in this way.

Play is the basis of creativity, the basic skill of imagining - the foundation of art. But art making without regard to the wider audience at some vital point, lacking in the "Work of communication", is just messing around - and even elephants and orangutans can do that.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 25, 2005 11:18 AM
  Reply

Anybody go see the Alec Soth show at the MIA? I enjoyed the two reviews by Glenn Gordon and Michael Fallon posted on the site here. Wish I had known about it, I'd have made the trip down there. Is the show still in the smaller, former-new-acquisitions gallery? In my mind I can see a show of large-format photos in the large, second story gallery and it looks quite good.

Michael Fallon

Posts: 201
Registered: Jul 3, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 26, 2005 12:31 AM
  Reply

edit

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 26, 2005 8:49 AM
  Reply

Thanks, Michael. I appreciate your helpful words. I'm just trying to figure this stuff out and do the best job I can. It is amazing how complex and amorphous the art world is. Almost like navigating one of those giant jellyfish colonies in the sea. Persistance, thoughtfulness, inspiration and a healthy tolerance for pain seems the way to go. Don't forget luck as well. Sometimes I can probably be a little annoying/overly passionate, but I think it's coming from a good place.

As for my work of the past year, I really think it started with my Jerome Travel Grant. I knew when I was visiting the sculpture parks, museums, etc. that it was a great experience that would influence my work. But I don't think I was prepared for how that three week tour would propel me like it has. I hope you had/will have a similar experience with yours. My interest in criticism is in part a desire for feedback on how others see my work and where I'm at in my development. I want to explore the void between how I see/think about my work and how others see it. My feeling is that this abyss is very important, and I'd at least like to have the chance to risk looking too long into it.

I believe I read in an update from Colin that you're leaving for a fellowship at Carnegie Mellon? Congratulations and best of luck. It's always sad to walk through a new door and leave an old life behind. Ah, but the potential of the new life ahead!

Safe travels.

Sam

James Michael Lawrence

Posts: 134
Registered: Jan 3, 2004
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 26, 2005 10:08 AM
  Reply

Edit

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 2:56 PM
  Reply

> Anybody go see the Alec Soth show at the MIA? I
> enjoyed the two reviews by Glenn Gordon and Michael
> Fallon posted on the site here. Wish I had known
> about it, I'd have made the trip down there. Is the
> show still in the smaller, former-new-acquisitions
> gallery? In my mind I can see a show of large-format
> photos in the large, second story gallery and it
> looks quite good.

Yes I did. I am truly disappointed by it. It is a sad case of "left overs" from the real shows. But that is what happens when curatorial politics railroads a show through a "supposably democratic process". But it is just that we Minnesota Artists get what we "tolerate"; mediocrity!

Jimmy "Jaime" Longoria
Chicano Artist de Minnesota
en
Coyote Infinity

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 4:26 PM
  Reply

Sweet dude! Carnegie Mellon?! You are going to experience "The Da Vinci Effect"!!! Innovation with impact!
(http://www.davincieffect.com/what/index.html)

Man, check this out, President Cohon talking about artist DaVinci. http://www.davincieffect.com/cohon.html

Please continue to openly share your wealth of knowledge with the rest of the class.
Congress.

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 28, 2005 2:37 AM
  Reply

Soth is one of the few artists out there calling themselves photographers. Most of the rest of you crack-pots with cameras remind me of a Seinfeld episode about dentists. "What do you call a doctor (artist) that flunked out of med school? A dentist (photographer)."

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 28, 2005 8:48 AM
  Reply

Ah-hem "Photojournalist" if you must.

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 29, 2005 8:43 PM
  Reply

There seems to be

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 30, 2005 5:46 PM
  Reply

Bob,
It's good of you to mention the curating shows for the moon idea. I was just thinking something like that yesterday. I was going to use the collections to curate a show for Mars. Thus circumventing the globalists and becoming an extra-planetary show organizer.
It would have lots of Earth photography and certainly Bill Klailas Forest Rain projection. Maybe a map to Iapetus.
It's fun to think about staging exhibitions for other planets.

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 1, 2005 12:21 AM
  Reply

This is art.

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