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Topic: What do you do with Bad Art?
Replies: 20 Pages: 2 Last Post: Apr 15, 2004 1:28 AM by: Lauren DeSteno

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Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 9, 2004 3:53 PM

Hi folks. I've been cleaning out my studio, and I've found a lot old work that is of no value to me or anyone else, but tossing it in the garbage seems too wasteful. What do you do with your old art?

Some thoughts/suggestions I have received include:

Have an art "fire sale"
Donate to school/community center for projects
Reuse in new work

I have some items that can't be used in any of the above ways. Can you help me add to the list? What do you do with your old artwork?

Thanks!
Lauren

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 9, 2004 3:54 PM

Oh hey, here's an idea:

ART EXCHANGE:

I have friends that have participated in garment alteration exchanges, why not an art alteration exchange? For example, a group of folks will dig into their closets and find an item of clothing they no longer enjoy wearing. They exchange these items with another group, and both groups perform artistic alterations on the clothing, then send them back. My sister has had a lot of fun with this in the last few years.

Is anyone interested in doing this with me?

lauren

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 9, 2004 11:28 PM

Donate it to the Mediocre Art Movement for organizers to "sell" for FREE to artists who would paint over it. One girls trash is anothers new canvas.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 9, 2004 11:29 PM

Oh! I see thats what you were suggesting! Art Alteration Exchange. Cool Idea! Take before and after pictures.

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 9, 2004 11:31 PM

Yes, that would be very cool. Are you in?

lauren

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 10, 2004 12:00 AM

Jemma Gura

Posts: 13
From: Minneapolis
Registered: Mar 9, 2003

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 11, 2004 3:25 PM

gesso. repaint. use the underlying textures to your benefit.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 13, 2004 8:58 AM

> IN

Are you guys serious or just babbling?

(forgive the snarl but I do have live up to Fallon's characterizations of Coyote{the lurkers find it quite amusing})

Ray do you know of a place called the Art Cafe? In Saint Anthony Place? It is not far from Soap. What if we agree to meet there on Thursday night for the Minnesota Mediocre Art Trade and Swap meet? Say from 5:00 to 9:00. The place is very empty and has room to grow. It's management would certainly appreciate a handful of Artists coming together to chat and talk about art and methods, it would create interest for those who are shy about art. Remember this would be a gather of Art stars and organization dignitaries but instead the average unaccomplished artist. It is an opportunity to meet the future artists in their youth, before they are leaders in the art scene.

Are you guys up for it?

jaime

I will bring 3 digital print outs for trade at a value of $10.00 each.
coyote 256

Message was edited by: jaime longoria at Feb 13, 2004 8:58 AM

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 13, 2004 7:12 PM

Thanks, for your ideas, Jemma. Unfortuntately, most of what I'm talking about aren't paintings, so they can't be easily "gessoed" over. I'm talking old drawings (newsprint and other), bad digital prints, prints with bad registration, proofs, sculpture fragments, etc.

Coyote:

I'm serious, but I had a different idea in mind. I'm talking about art that's not even worth "swapping" and keeping in it's current form. More like a trade/fix/trade back sort of thing. BUT - I think your idea for a small, cheap, art swap is great. If I were to do it, I would avoid monetary values, and just bring something small and swappable; something that you actually like, but aren't going to die if you part with it. Then swap with a bunch of other folks.

whaddayathink?

lauren

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 23, 2004 9:44 PM

OK yes, the ASTER CAFE. A plesant place as I have been finding on my recent visits. It is favored by the intellagencia. Thursday? Free for me.

Back to what do you do with bad art... Any one interested in shooting it? Chris Pennington, a Soap man, is installing a shooting gallery and I belive he has a call out for art which is to be shot up. Sound like fun? I can put you in touch.

(Edit because the stupid dunn bros comps erased the word "shooting" from the post and made the core point null and void.)

Message was edited by: Ray Rolfe at Feb 24, 2004 5:29 PM

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 24, 2004 8:29 AM

> Thanks, for your ideas, Jemma. Unfortunately, most
> of what I'm talking about aren't paintings, so they
> can't be easily "gessoed" over. I'm talking old
> drawings (newsprint and other), bad digital prints,
> prints with bad registration, proofs, sculpture
> fragments, etc.
>
> Coyote:
>
> I'm serious, but I had a different idea in mind. I'm
> talking about art that's not even worth "swapping"
> and keeping in it's current form. More like a
> trade/fix/trade back sort of thing. BUT - I think
> your idea for a small, cheap, art swap is great. If I
> were to do it, I would avoid monetary values, and
> just bring something small and swappable; something
> that you actually like, but aren't going to die if
> you part with it. Then swap with a bunch of other
> folks.
>
> whaddayathink?
>
> lauren

Most "young" artists do not have any idea of how to value their work. They have either their ego or low self esteem issues so tied up to the question that they do not have any means to price their work. By "bartering" in dollar values then we can get them to start to understand costs/price; for example my $10.00 digital prints.

100% cotton rag paper; $40.00 per 200 sheets =$ .20 per sheet
At a 20% "good" quality output rate (only one out five prints is good enough to frame) forces a 5 to 1 success ratio or a factor of 5. So 5 X $ .20 sheet cost = $1.00 sheet costs per piece. Standard markup of 100% = $2.00 per print price.

"Diploma" style frame @ $3.50 with 100 % markup = $7.00 price.

$2.00 + $7.00= $9.00 price on costs I must carry. At $10.00 I am gaining $1.00 on the "art" with this print. It is a "no lose" deal. If it were a straight cash sale then:

$10.00 X 2 = $20.00 wholesale with a 100 % for gallery/retail to a sale price of $40.00.

My "art" return climbs to $11.00 on my investment of $4.50.

Does this make sense to you?

It is one of the main ideas underlining the Minnesota Mediocre Art Movement.

Art that Minnesotans can buy.

coyote 256

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 24, 2004 5:43 PM

OH! (You're addressing Lauren but) I get it. Oh my, so sory for being a bit slow on this! The tractor print was one of the first things you ever showed me! I finaly have enough money to invest in this experiment!
"Ahh Blue Surf" will be my first $10 print, dressed as you perscribe. That is a painting I have recived the best feedback on. From a local printmaker saying man you gotta print that out in large format and I know a guy who could sell tons of them, to a woman in California saying she would buy it as a great "show piece". I will do 3 when I can to see if this formula works.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 24, 2004 7:09 PM

> OH! (You're addressing Lauren but) I get it. Oh my,
> so sorry for being a bit slow on this! The tractor
> print was one of the first things you ever showed me!
> I finally have enough money to invest in this
> experiment!
> "Ahh Blue Surf" will be my first $10 print, dressed
> as you prescribe. That is a painting I have received
> the best feedback on. From a local printmaker saying
> man you gotta print that out in large format and I
> know a guy who could sell tons of them, to a woman in
> California saying she would buy it as a great "show
> piece". I will do 3 when I can to see if this formula
> works.

Is it on your site? Is it on the MM site? Put it as a jpeg on your what are you doing today post. Make it Art that anyone; even artists can buy.

coyote 256
chicano Artist

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 24, 2004 11:19 PM

Thank you, Coyote, I understand. What about the time used to create the work? Is that valued, and how?

lauren

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: What do you do with Bad Art?
Posted: Feb 25, 2004 10:48 AM

> Thank you, Coyote, I understand. What about the time
> used to create the work? Is that valued, and how?
>
> lauren

Your time is worth what it is worth.

You and the Market determine that.

With the collapse of the post 9/11 Stock Market, the Foundation Market fell, the State funding also fell; money for afterschool programing dried up and my artist in residence fee fell from $50.00 to $32.00 per hour. In really hard hit areas my hour is down to $16.00.

In the case of the above prints: five prints take about a half hour to set up and complete. The "framing" about fifteen minutes; so say a total of real time of 45 minutes adjusted for natural inefficiency of two and half times equals one hour and 52.5 minutes or say two hours; then at $16.00 my time is worth $32.00 as a full return in production not including sales and marketing time.

But I still have to go to the market where my "price" is negotiated with the consumer.

This is the most vital of "truths" that artist miss in valuing the art; the consumer actually sets the price.

coyote 256

On the matter of the "original" for the prints; it has a very different price as time proves it's value. A very popular print drives the price up and a so so print drives it down. But the basic logic is that it is worth 5 times the actual time you spent at the highest hourly rate that you have.

For example the Smiling Farmer is a twelve hour piece. I am ocassionally contracted at $500.00 per half day. Or $125.00 per hour; then 12 X $125.00 = $1,500.00.

I will be offering it in an exhibition where the "house" gets 30% of the final sale price so I will have to Price it at $2,100.00 to keep my return in line with my "worth".

coyote 256

Message was edited by: jaime longoria at Feb 25, 2004 10:51 AM

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