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Topic: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Replies: 88   Pages: 6   Last Post: Jun 9, 2003 5:17 PM by: jaime longoria

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Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 26, 2003 6:13 AM
  Reply

Ray's heartstring testimonial notwithstanding, I haven't heard anything here that changes my initial impression of MM.

What is change?

In fact, Lauren, your explanation of the progression of the idea pretty much confirms what I thought about it.

The self-interest I see in MM goes along with what might be the cause of what "X" described in response to your query about erasing posts--that he felt he was talking to a brick wall. It appears it is inevitable,


Well, why not eh?

unfortunately, that the forum ideas that stay current on mnartists are the ones pushed by someone with a particular agenda

Generally speaking? Or do you meen me>? I had the feeling my thoughts or words had saturated this forum to extensively. My darn name all over the place. I seriously wonder, am i fu*king up the art world?? But ah, It's just the nature of creative thought that driven ideas stay current, contemporary... Which, just so ya know, is my agenda. 1. SURVIVAL 2. CREATIVITY


--and that disagreement is ignored. I personally don't have an agenda--nothing to push, no bones to pick, no career to promote. I am trying to listen and read everyone's postings--to learn and to understand and to comment my two cents-worth. (And I apologize if I miss addressing someone's thoughts or questions, but you know how it is--having a life to lead and all that; unlike some, I never end up here because I am bored).

eh.. I'll just let that go.

While I would like to see some things change in the arts here in MN, I don't particularly want to be, and can't be--due to time-- the one to do it. I'd like to see an arts magazine here, but I don't want to publish it; I'd like to see greater, not less, support for the arts in the capitol, but I'm not going to lobby. I'd like to see a lot of things, but I just don't have time and energy to make the world a better place--though I love telling people how I think it might be better.

Ok then I'll do it. I have lots of time. A whole lota precious time, patience and time. But I might need a few bucks for lunch...

You could call me the "grampa on the back porch" of the local arts if you so choose.

Do you have any afghans perchance grampa?

So my sense of the agenda of MM continues to be, despite Ray's promises, that it is an effort primarily intended to serve the careers of a few small individuals who generally feel disenfranchised by the arts community.
Guess I gota stick up for myself here eh boys? I do not consider myself or my contemporaries "Small individuals" thankyou. I hope you were not refering to Dannys Grandma. And I'm emerging, I haven't been around long enough to feel "disenfranchised by the arts community". I'm still just meeting everyone and by all estimates it's going great. My sense of the agenda, speaking now as the mediocre mob boss, is to have an exhibition that means different things to different people with a common theme of transcending the prejudices of pretence.

If that message speaks to everyone, and everyone signs on board for whatever MM ends up being--an exhibition, a t-shirt factory, a new revolution in art--so be it.

You know you want a shirt now......

Somehow I doubt this will amount to very much. My message to everyone is that if MM is the best idea that the mnartists community can come up with, then I suspect there is little hope for change for the better to come from these forums.

Oh no! Of course MM isn't the best idea we can come up with. It's MEDIOCRE! And I still think it's alluring. With art this stimulating, just imagine what Minnesota Magnificent or MACCAB or whotever could be. Man I tell ya the truth. I'm FROM Minnesota. I do not consider it to be mediocre AT ALL. It's the best state in the world in a way. It's all relative. Our mediocrity is self aware and witty while our brilliance is off the map. Maybe New York or whoever calls us mediocre just doesn't want to understand thus projecting inferior labels. And what do we do? turn vurnarability into power and accessibility with savvy. Progressive wouldn't you say? But thats something I learned from Kim Gordon, a newyork artist so score a point for colabrative understanding. I'm flatered.
You wouldn't be atempting political disent to get us shut down in 2005 now would you?

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 26, 2003 11:11 PM
  Reply

> Ray's heartstring testimonial notwithstanding, I
> haven't heard anything here that changes my initial
> impression of MM. In fact, Lauren, your explanation
> of the progression of the idea pretty much confirms
> what I thought about it.

Understood. I just wanted to let you know that it started in a better place.

> I'd like to
> see an arts magazine here, but I don't want to
> publish it; I'd like to see greater, not less,
> support for the arts in the capitol, but I'm not
> going to lobby. I'd like to see a lot of things, but
> I just don't have time and energy to make the world a
> better place--though I love telling people how I
> think it might be better.

And it is this pervasive attitude that kills our arts magazines, funding, etc. Congrats, I think you've nailed the larger issue on the head.

Lauren

Mays Newman

Posts: 92
Registered: Apr 29, 2003
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 27, 2003 9:54 AM
  Reply

> And it is this pervasive attitude that kills
> our arts magazines, funding, etc. Congrats, I think
> you've nailed the larger issue on the head.
>
> Lauren

I know I know. It's rare to find someone whose efforts are applied unconditionally--with only the greater good in mind. I doubt that anything but a self-interested initiative will ever come of mnartists.org. That is, people will push only the things/ideas that will help themselves. Which is fine, of course, as long as everyone understands that is what is going on.

I have ideas that I'd like to push--that I think would benefit the community (and not me necessarily)--but I have no time to actually act on my ideas. So my self-interest/self-preservation impulse basically hinders me from doing something to make the arts community better.

Ultimately, as long as artists and arts-oriented folk are struggling just to survive, and survival is tops in the mind of the artists, nothing will change for the better.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 27, 2003 10:04 AM
  Reply

> Ray's heartstring testimonial notwithstanding, I
> haven't heard anything here that changes my initial
> impression of MM.

>
> What is change?
>
> In fact, Lauren, your explanation of the
> progression of the idea pretty much confirms what I
> thought about it.
>
> The self-interest I see in MM goes along with what
> might be the cause of what "X" described in response
> to your query about erasing posts--that he felt he
> was talking to a brick wall. It appears it is
> inevitable,

>
> Well, why not eh?
>
> unfortunately, that the forum ideas that stay
> current on monarchists are the ones pushed by someone
> with a particular agenda

>
> Generally speaking? Or do you men me>? I had the
> feeling my thoughts or words had saturated this forum
> to extensively. My darn name all over the place. I
> seriously wonder, am i fu*king up the art world?? But
> ah, It's just the nature of creative thought that
> driven ideas stay current, contemporary... Which,
> just so ya know, is my agenda. 1. SURVIVAL 2.
> CREATIVITY
>
>
> --and that disagreement is ignored. I personally
> don't have an agenda--nothing to push, no bones to
> pick, no career to promote. I am trying to listen and
> read everyone's postings--to learn and to understand
> and to comment my two cents-worth. (And I apologize
> if I miss addressing someone's thoughts or questions,
> but you know how it is--having a life to lead and all
> that; unlike some, I never end up here because I am
> bored).

>
> eh.. I'll just let that go.
>
> While I would like to see some things change in
> the arts here in MN, I don't particularly want to be,
> and can't be--due to time-- the one to do it. I'd
> like to see an arts magazine here, but I don't want
> to publish it; I'd like to see greater, not less,
> support for the arts in the capitol, but I'm not
> going to lobby. I'd like to see a lot of things, but
> I just don't have time and energy to make the world a
> better place--though I love telling people how I
> think it might be better.

>
> Ok then I'll do it. I have lots of time. A whole lota
> precious time, patience and time. But I might need a
> few bucks for lunch...
>
> You could call me the "grampus on the back porch"
> of the local arts if you so choose.

>
> Do you have any afghans perchance grampus?
>
> So my sense of the agenda of MM continues to be,
> despite Ray's promises, that it is an effort
> primarily intended to serve the careers of a few
> small individuals who generally feel disenfranchised
> by the arts community.

> Guess I gota stick up for myself here eh boys? I do
> not consider myself or my contemporaries "Small
> individuals" thankyou. I hope you were not referring
> to Dannys Grandma. And I'm emerging, I haven't been
> around long enough to feel "disenfranchised by the
> arts community". I'm still just meeting everyone and
> by all estimates it's going great. My sense of the
> agenda, speaking now as the mediocre mob boss, is to
> have an exhibition that means different things to
> different people with a common theme of transcending
> the prejudices of pretence.
>
> If that message speaks to everyone, and everyone
> signs on board for whatever MM ends up being--an
> exhibition, a t-shirt factory, a new revolution in
> art--so be it.

>
> You know you want a shirt now......
>
> Somehow I doubt this will amount to very much. My
> message to everyone is that if MM is the best idea
> that the monarchists community can come up with, then I
> suspect there is little hope for change for the
> better to come from these forums.

>
> Oh no! Of course MM isn't the best idea we can come
> up with. It's MEDIOCRE! And I still think it's
> alluring. With art this stimulating, just imagine
> what Minnesota Magnificent or MACCAB or whatever
> could be. Man I tell ya the truth. I'm FROM
> Minnesota. I do not consider it to be mediocre AT
> ALL. It's the best state in the world in a way. It's
> all relative. Our mediocrity is self aware and witty
> while our brilliance is off the map. Maybe New York
> or whoever calls us mediocre just doesn't want to
> understand thus projecting inferior labels. And what
> do we do? turn vurnarability into power and
> accessibility with savvy. Progressive wouldn't you
> say? But thats something I learned from Kim Gordon, a
> newyork artist so score a point for collaborative
> understanding. I'm flattered.
> You wouldn't be attempting political dissent to get us
> shut down in 2005 now would you?


Bravo my future Presidente!

Well said.

MM is not for everybody. It takes courage to acknowledge that some of your work is not Globally competitive.

But humble as it may be it deserves a home with someone that values it because it was made for no other purpose than the joy of making it.

Those who answer to a "higher authority" have a right to demand for themselves the crown and scepter of "greatness" but not for us. We are content to paint in the street, make it quickly and inexpensively and without pompous obsubfiscation and to price our happily made mediorce work so single mothers with children and working people can bring art into their small apartments in marginal neighborhoods and brighten up thier lives. " Art with a Purpose"

MM is about addressing a market share of the art field that very few "ARTISTS" want to address: people who will consume the art themselves.

There will always be armchair critics "who told us so"or had a better idea; but for us: who do get our hands dirty, work up a sweat, put in our money and WORK at building something, there is a reward: MM the organization.

Bravo mi Presidente!!!!

coyote infante

Mays Newman

Posts: 92
Registered: Apr 29, 2003
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 28, 2003 8:49 AM
  Reply

> Oh no! Of course MM isn't the best idea we can come
> up with. It's MEDIOCRE! And I still think it's
> alluring. With art this stimulating, just imagine
> what Minnesota Magnificent or MACCAB or whotever
> could be. Man I tell ya the truth. I'm FROM
> Minnesota. I do not consider it to be mediocre AT
> ALL. It's the best state in the world in a way. It's
> all relative. Our mediocrity is self aware and witty
> while our brilliance is off the map. Maybe New York
> or whoever calls us mediocre just doesn't want to
> understand thus projecting inferior labels. And what
> do we do? turn vurnarability into power and
> accessibility with savvy. Progressive wouldn't you
> say? But thats something I learned from Kim Gordon, a
> newyork artist so score a point for colabrative
> understanding. I'm flatered.
> You wouldn't be atempting political disent to get us
> shut down in 2005 now would you?

OK. I've had my say. I won't say any more about MM. I wish the organization luck. Even more than that I wish the organization tact and empathy. I worry that you've already alienated a handful of people on this forum--Danny, Lauren (though she's too nice to admit it), perhaps others--and you haven't even done anything yet. Tempering the fire of your rhetoric may do much to get all the "mediocre" artists you're after on your side.

As for this "best state" thing--hmmm. That's what the rankings have said for the past five years or so, and that's what people tell me, but I've lived in other states that were supposed to be worse places to live but that were just as nice. Plus, all that pro-MN propaganda came before the tax-giveaway tactics of the previous admin, the resulting budget deficits, and the current service-slashing tendencies of the current budget. Artists are bearing a large part of this retrenchment. I will repeat what I've written in another forum: the MN State Arts board had its budget cut last weekend by 32 percent (this means 30 percent less money to artists, and 60 percent less administrative money). As a result perhaps, Minnesota has already been slipping in some of the latest state rankings. Someone from the National Association of State Arts Agencies (N.A.S.A.A.) recently told me that Minnesota is in the lower 10% of states at present in terms of budget problems. That is, only five or so states have worse problems than we do now.

As for your final question: no, I do not want this forum to shut down. Why would you think I want that? I'm just a fellow poster, having my fair say in matters brought up in front of the "community." Maybe I express a bit more dissent than most, but I don't believe in the herd mentality running roughshod over people like Danny and Lux and whoever. You of all people, Ray the homeless artist, should know that political dissent, politely but firmly expressed, is a sign of a healthy community. I worry especially that in the rush to sign on with the herd such people as "X" feel as though their ideas are not being heard.

Danny Smith

Posts: 182
Registered: Nov 9, 2002
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 29, 2003 4:23 PM
  Reply

> MM is not for everybody. It takes courage to
> acknowledge that some of your work is not Globally
> competitive.
>
> But humble as it may be it deserves a home with
> someone that values it because it was made for no
> other purpose than the joy of making it.
>
> Those who answer to a "higher authority" have a right
> to demand for themselves the crown and scepter of
> "greatness" but not for us. We are content to paint
> in the street, make it quickly and inexpensively and
> without pompous obsubfiscation and to price our
> happily made mediorce work so single mothers with
> children and working people can bring art into their
> small apartments in marginal neighborhoods and
> brighten up thier lives. " Art with a Purpose"
>
> MM is about addressing a market share of the art
> field that very few "ARTISTS" want to address: people
> who will consume the art themselves.


it's interesting how the focus of MM went from "hotdish art", afghans, and the whitling of the elderly to "our happily made mediocre art." all for the people, eh?

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 29, 2003 7:30 PM
  Reply

Danny, hmm it is interesting, but is it interdisciplinary?
I am also kinda confused as it keeps changing. I totally forgot or missed the fact that it was something Lauren had invented because of the intellectual property thing. Lauren, please forgive me for not being sensitive enough to grasp whats going on.
And I didn't think I would have my own work in the show (beyond curation) but now thats what I'm being asked to do. And thats what I'm doing by way of confused rambling I guess... I do shy away from recent interpretations in anycase. I don't know..

Mays, about the health of the community, the political comment was just off color humor. I totally respect your informative ways. I was way moved to do something about "it" when I read your other post. Even if you don't have enough of whatever it takes (time) to be an active force beyond words, some times words are enough to inspire some powerful meaning and action in someone else. I didn't know the information you conveyed until you did, and now I want to do everything in my power to improve the arts situation in this state (the whole world actually) Not by saying whats bad or wrong about it though, But by focusing on the good aspects. I would rather hunt for the novel innovations and communicate the amazing yet not quite popular stuff, so that it might have a chance at this changing of the world we type about. Not to say I want to be unaware of our probeblems. Your information about the current situation is valuable and I thank you. We need to know what the problems are in order to find solutions.
Minnesota, It's just the best from my perspective of hiking in the woods, fishing, bike riding on our world known parkway system, ect. But about the stats and rankings, what the heck is going on? Are our leaders really that clueless? We have some of the worse problems in the country?? Darnit!
The budget wouldn't be so bad if they would JUST CHARGE THE COMPANIES TAKING OUR GROUND WATER! 2 cents a gallon would make billions year people. Arrg.

Capitol Notebook: Gubernatorial candidate Leslie Davis issues his water planby T.W. Budig
ECM capitol reporter

Political activist Leslie Davis, gubernatorial candidate for Protect the Earth Party, issued a water plan this week that could raise $2 billion a year in state revenue, according to Davis.

Each year some 100 billion of publicly-owned underground water is used by business. These people pay virtually nothing for this water — $4.50 per million gallons, according to Davis.

Under the Davis water plan, companies would be charged two cents per gallon for underground water.

According to Davis, some of Minnesota’s high-water use company in 2000 includes Koch Refining, 2.6 billion; 3M, 3.4 billion, Camas, 1.6 billion; and Cenex, 1.4 billion.


See, theres someone, i think, whos ideas are not getting heard. (but they are now ) And so I would remove my noisy communications for a while so others can express what they want. I will listen a bit more. But I do disagree with you Mays that noting but self interested projects will come of mnartists.org collaborations. It just seems so free. Anything can happen. I mean, if I find a link to a site that feeds hungry kids just by clickin on it, ( http://www.thehungersite.com/ ) I'm really not just a self-interested careerist luring you into a web of me by asking you to go click that link! Which, incidentally, I am asking. (1.5 cups of food per click, try it)
So In conclusion,
There's nothing on the top
but a bucket and a mop,
and an illustrated book about birds.
You'll see a lot up there
but don't be scared,
Who needs action when you've got words.

Danny Smith

Posts: 182
Registered: Nov 9, 2002
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 30, 2003 7:21 PM
  Reply

> Danny, hmm it is interesting, but is it
> interdisciplinary?
> I am also kinda confused as it keeps changing. I
> totally forgot or missed the fact that it was
> something Lauren had invented because of the
> intellectual property thing. Lauren, please forgive
> me for not being sensitive enough to grasp whats
> going on.
> And I didn't think I would have my own work in the
> show (beyond curation) but now thats what I'm being
> asked to do. And thats what I'm doing by way of
> confused rambling I guess... I do shy away from
> recent interpretations in anycase. I don't know..


you're confused at the way the focus is shifting, ray? correct me if i'm wrong here, but aren't you the 'president' of MM? if it's not changing under your direction, who is directing the change? just something to think about.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 30, 2003 7:46 PM
  Reply

I'm just a puppet for the man. Like the real prez.
Naah just kidding. Maybe God is changing the focus. I'm less confused now. It was just difficult to iron out sarcasim and get to the truth for a second there. Call it a senior moment. I'm feeling much better about the whole thing now. Just a bit of self doubt really is all it was. This is happening fast. I had to recalibrate.

Anyway Danny, we have a show now! I still think it would be neat if you want to be involved by exhibiting one of your grandmothers fine works. PLease? I'm serious. An afghan would look cool as a back drop to some paintings or something. It's going to be at Dunn Bros in uptown. July. Please?

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 30, 2003 8:03 PM
  Reply
Simpsons - Mediocre Presidents' Song.mp3 (815.0 K)

I know this isn't the place and someone might like to get back to interdisciplinary art. But I thought you might enjoy this Danny.

Danny Smith

Posts: 182
Registered: Nov 9, 2002
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 30, 2003 10:33 PM
  Reply

i really wish i could hear the song. unfortunately, i unhooked my speakers from the computer so i could listen to music on the stereo. maybe i should get another pair of speakers?

re: the afghan. i doubt i could swing an afghan from my gran, as she lives in michigan, and i'm exactly on good terms with her. but i'll check around in my closets, and i'll talk to my mom. who knows what one might find in my closet...

Danny Smith

Posts: 182
Registered: Nov 9, 2002
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 30, 2003 10:34 PM
  Reply

also, ray: email me and let me know the particulars of the MM show: who's work is to be shown, when, etc...

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: May 31, 2003 10:08 PM
  Reply

> also, ray: email me and let me know the particulars
> of the MM show: who's work is to be shown, when,
> etc...

this is the preliminary concept offered to the gallery committee.

The process of selection will depend on adherence to the concept of MM.

Minnesota Mediocre
Table of Affordability

Minnesota Mediocre„ is an effort to unite the average Minnesota artist with the average Minnesota art lover. The objective is to increase the amount of Minnesota made art that is actually "consumed." The first hurdle to be overcome is the high cost of art. Minnesota Mediocre intends to encourage artists that create art that is affordable for the average Minnesotan. Using a per capita income target of $35,000/year and assuming that art would be a reasonable expenditure at 1% of that, $350 is a reasonable amount to be spent on art per year. The challenge to the artist is to produce 4 purchase opportunities within that budget amount. If we allow the consumer to buy art once every season we have a target price of $85.

Minnesota Mediocre wants to encourage artists to select out of their line of production the good work that they produce but often do not present as their best, and to make this work available for consumption in keeping within this budgetary amount.

Using $85 as an average and looking at work as having 4 hypothetical purchase opportunities, the following appear to be sound price breaks.

Image Size Price Break Framing mark-up Total Price
1' x 1' $25 $10 $35
2' x 2' $35 $20 $55
3' x 3' $55 $30 $85
4' x 4' $70 $40 $110

Using the above numbers as targets and selling art in essence by the square foot, we can set up a buying opportunity that would allow Minnesota Mediocre artists a higher number of transactions with patrons.

The Minnesota art scene has enjoyed many innovative and committed galleries that have unfortunately collapsed after a couple years of frustration. We believe that it is a matter of a misunderstanding of the Minnesota character. The art available in these galleries very rapidly goes from affordable to "you've got to be kidding." In part, this is due to the artists' unrealistic expectation that their work should command "New York" prices.

May 30, 2003


The principles will decide the process of the process.

jaime

Message was edited by: jaime longoria at Jul 8, 2003 12:07 PM


jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: What is Interdisciplinary Art?
Posted: Jun 9, 2003 5:17 PM
  Reply

something new= affordable art/ a cross between marketing art and my art

Looking for artists to produce and provide 5 artworks for sale in an Uptown Pocket gallery.
The works need to be ready to go out the door. Framed and wired for hanging.
They need to hit the following price breaks:
$25.00 to $35.00.
$36.00 to $50.00.
$51.00 to $85.00.
$86.00 to $150.00.
25% of the sale price goes to the gallery which is a not for profit venture.
You will be part of the MM movement that is attempting to make art affordable to the average Minnesotian.
contact :
Jaime Longoria
vivitaus@msn.com
send jpeg and mnartist.org address

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