mnartists.org

Home » Forum Home » mnartists.org Forums » The Plaza

Topic: The Value of Community...
Replies: 18   Pages: 2   Last Post: Aug 21, 2005 9:20 PM by: jaime longoria

Reply to this Topic
Search Forum

Back to Topic List Topics: [ Previous | Next ]
Replies: 18   Pages: 2   [ 1 2 | Next ]
Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
The Value of Community...
Posted: Jan 28, 2004 8:10 PM
  Reply

Here is a message I posted over in the Lounge and it got a couple good responses already so I've moved it over here:


Something I think is relevant but don't yet know how it fits into the scheme of things... I'm reading a book about intelligences in life organisms. Part is about the use of feedback loops in bacteria to speed up evolution/adaption to their environment. Bacteria "communicate" with each other by passing/stealing genetic code and by modifying their interior processes in the face of stress to speed up mutations. Bacteria will even interact between "species" or different types as well, making the distinctions between them less meaningful.

It occurred to me that arts communities in general but mnartists.org in particular could learn a lot from these bacteria. The forums speed up, make more efficient, and archive communication within the community. It can be used to modify our techniques/thoughts/behaviors at a very fast rate as well as influencing the type of behavior we choose. It allows us to borrow from other disciplines within the community as well, perhaps garnering a skill that is revolutionary for one but of minor importance to the other. I'm still working on it, but I might try to expand on this a bit later one.

My one main question though is that for bacteria, their goal is very simple; to survive and reproduce. (The author actually believes the goal is different, that it is to socialize.) What is the goal of the individuals on this community and the community in general? Is it merely to survive to make art another day? Is it to socialize with others, to meet them and broaden the reach of our own ideas? If y'all can help me with this question, I think I can take the next step in understanding.

Sam


Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Jan 28, 2004 8:11 PM
  Reply

Originally posted by Robert Parker Williams:

Re: What are you doing today?
Posted: Jan 28, 2004 12:47 PM


First, I applaud Sam for eloquence. Well said, Sir. For me sometimes the question is: how thick is the line between fraternizing and making an impact? Are we toeing it or are we on a bridge of chit-chat? It brings to life the topic of this somewhat lengthy thread. What am I doing today? Not enough. Then again, when in a lounge, I tend to socialize.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Jan 28, 2004 8:16 PM
  Reply

Originally posted by Gabriel Combs:

Re: What are you doing today?
Posted: Jan 28, 2004 7:10 PM


> Something I think is relevant but don't yet know how
> it fits into the scheme of things... I'm reading a
> book about intelligences in life organisms. Part is
> about the use of feedback loops in bacteria to speed
> up evolution/adaption to their environment. Bacteria
> "communicate" with each other by passing/stealing
> genetic code and by modifying their interior
> processes in the face of stress to speed up
> mutations. Bacteria will even interact between
> "species" or different types as well, making the
> distinctions between them less meaningful.

Well, that's interesting...

> It occurred to me that arts communities in general
> but mnartists.org in particular could learn a lot
> from these bacteria. The forums speed up, make more
> efficient, and archive communication within the
> community. It can be used to modify our
> techniques/thoughts/behaviors at a very fast rate as
> well as influencing the type of behavior we choose.
> It allows us to borrow from other disciplines within
> the community as well, perhaps garnering a skill
> that is revolutionary for one but of minor
> importance to the other. I'm still working on it,
> but I might try to expand on this a bit later one.

You have been assimilated.


> My one main question though is that for bacteria,
> their goal is very simple; to survive and reproduce.
> (The author actually believes the goal is different,
> that it is to socialize.) What is the goal
> of the individuals on this community and the
> community in general? Is it merely to survive to
> make art another day? Is it to socialize with
> others, to meet them and broaden the reach of our
> own ideas? If y'all can help me with this question,
> I think I can take the next step in understanding.
>
> Sam

Part of me wants to say simply to art another day, but its more complicated. The socialization is key. Frequently, I feel less lonely if I have mnartists sitting here while I work. My main course to survival is continuing my work. But I am unable to sustain myself alone. Its all connected, and I don't feel too articulate to explain well. I think coming on here and seeing your work, Sam, has become a good motivator for me. A peer worthy of respect regarding the actual work is valuble. I think our two veins of work are quite a bit different, yet there is a straight body of work being done that I can understand and maybe relate to. I understand how to drive forward with the work, and I see that being done by the people who contribute to the forums here. The energy one has to exert to be producing work all the time is understood here also. No new car, new house, ect... Yet, I think that to artists, it is understood that the equivalent of those things is there. The work to get them is put in, but its always a gamble what you'll get back materially. The site has been contributing to solutions with the articles being posted, and the dialogue being stimulated. Its interesting to co-exist and even feel a part of this entity of community. Mnartists has played a role in how I have approached life and art also. I think I have become more sensitive and aware of communities in general. Its an issue that is coming up in art for me. Almost creating a struggle in the direction of my work. I find it fascinating why someone would like a certain peice, or even choose to buy a certain peice from me. Often, it has been the same peice that more than one person has liked. So, the struggle comes in that, am I a sell out to investigate the area further, even though I have genuine interest in doing so, partially based on the fascination with others favoring the area? It creates a social interaction in my work. I am respondant to this. End result, I think is that I will probably explore further, affected by others input/interest.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Jan 28, 2004 8:17 PM
  Reply

Thanks Gabe, that is some great stuff. I think you may have hit upon the answer. But it is indeed difficult to articulate, so I'll have to think about it some more. This could be it's own topic, too. Maybe I'll try to find an appropriate thread and move these over there.

And thanks Robert. A compliment from a writer is a compliment indeed. At what point is valuable information exchange just chit-chat? A good question. But I wonder if trying to exclude the chit-chat would result in less info transmission? Chit-chat is the grease in our wheels maybe?

Sam

Robert Parker Williams

Posts: 50
Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Jan 29, 2004 12:56 AM
  Reply

Grease in the wheels, oil slick in the road, it's all relative, in the end. I agree, there must be chit-chat and valuable info exchange and oft, they are the same. One way I look at mnartists.org is that I keep my hijinx on other boards. I'm sure it is common sense that this message board isn't a place to thrash and troll, although, there are always a few, but what I took from your initial post was kind of a what are we doing here question. In what way(s) can each of us contribute best? And naturally, how do we join forces to make this place what we all want it to be, which, in itself is a big question. Who's steering the ship?

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Jan 29, 2004 10:17 AM
  Reply

That's the thing Robert, there's no one steering the ship. There isn't even a democratic process where we all decide where we want the ship to go. In fact, the whole idea of a ship is too linear. I'd say we're closer to the waves, organizing as a chaotic force of energy in a general direction. Yes, we have moderators (which I am one of) and the all-powerful Colin, but we're just here to facilitate, not issue orders. That is what is exciting/frightening about the community. It's the source of its power and also the seed of its instability.

I think this community is about how "each of us can contribute best" but it is more than that as well. The partcipants do not have to be selfless to join. Empowering the community makes each individual participant stronger as well. It extends the reach of their voice, the reach of their work, and the connections between us. And if you've ever been stuck on a cold morning with a dead car battery, you know connections are very beneficial!

A while back we had a one or two posters complain about the limitations of the forum and the voices on it. This was done in their first or second post. But my response then would be the same today, Join us and make it greater with your voice! You can help mold the community in your image by contributing to its reach.

Good things to think about. I think this is finally clarifying some of the nagging questions in my mind.

Sam

Robert Parker Williams

Posts: 50
Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Jan 29, 2004 1:39 PM
  Reply

Glad I could be of service. It is not an uncommon problem. It could be a matter of time for some people, a matter of having to care, for others. I don't put much faith in democratic processes but I do like good ideas. Is part of the question how do we create some kind of non-restricting structure to an ocean of artists? Well, a decent-sized sea of them, at least. Can it be solved with a mission statement? I think big biz has shown professionally, how well that works. Yeah, and it is going to rain beer.

I'd be willing to explore the question further.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Mar 12, 2005 3:36 PM
  Reply

""""""""I'd be willing to explore the question further."""""""""""

I second that willingness.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Apr 6, 2005 9:34 AM
  Reply

Look here Jimmy G. Sam is some I always read. He is always on the mark, especially when he is dead wrong. His work is good too. It is tragic that the Local Art Mob (LAM) refuses to accept him as an up and commer!!

He is also admired by my "Coyote" followers for his exchanges with coyote!
Watch the counters when Sam and I disagree on something!!!

Coyote Infintiy

> That's the thing Robert, there's no one steering the
> ship. There isn't even a democratic process where we
> all decide where we want the ship to go. In fact,
> the whole idea of a ship is too linear. I'd say
> we're closer to the waves, organizing as a chaotic
> force of energy in a general direction. Yes, we have
> moderators (which I am one of) and the all-powerful
> Colin, but we're just here to facilitate, not issue
> orders. That is what is exciting/frightening about
> the community. It's the source of its power and also
> the seed of its instability.
>
> I think this community is about how "each of us can
> contribute best" but it is more than that as well.
> The partcipants do not have to be selfless to join.
> Empowering the community makes each individual
> l participant stronger as well. It extends the reach
> of their voice, the reach of their work, and the
> connections between us. And if you've ever been
> stuck on a cold morning with a dead car battery, you
> know connections are very beneficial!
>
> A while back we had a one or two posters complain
> about the limitations of the forum and the voices on
> it. This was done in their first or second post.
> But my response then would be the same today, Join
> us and make it greater with your voice! You can
> help mold the community in your image by
> contributing to its reach.
>
> Good things to think about. I think this is finally
> clarifying some of the nagging questions in my mind.
>
>
> Sam

Jim Grafsgaard

Posts: 15
Registered: Feb 19, 2003
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Apr 6, 2005 9:52 PM
  Reply

>
> My one main question though is that for bacteria,
> their goal is very simple; to survive and reproduce.
> (The author actually believes the goal is different,
> that it is to socialize.) What is the goal of the
> individuals on this community and the community in
> general? Is it merely to survive to make art another
> day? Is it to socialize with others, to meet them and
> broaden the reach of our own ideas? If y'all can help
> me with this question, I think I can take the next
> step in understanding.
>
> Sam

I love your example of the bacteria! (A major problem we have as humans is we are way too tied to seeing things from our own anthrocentric perspective - so too as artists. And even more problematic, we habitually see things from a selfish individual point of view without making the effort to empathize or educate ourselves about other ways of thinking.)

The goal of any organism or species or ecological community is first to survive, then to thrive. This forum and our art making, whether we recognize it or not, are part of this same impulse.

For an individual or community to thrive it must communicate and share information (genetic, behavioral,
intellectual, anticipatory). As with bacteria, human methods can and do include stealing, profiteering, co-opting, and mongrelizing ... the result may still even have objective value, but there are also more honest and respectful ways to share. Either way, the end is not just to socialize superficially (altho that is a vital mechanism), but more profoundly and creatively to form and continuously reform a society of thriving individuals in thriving community.

However...

We as artists do not have to take on the mantel of social reformers in order to serve this end. Our work
unavoidably ties in and combines with wider cultural forces to create its effect (to perhaps encourage conformism - as does art in Dayton's Home Decor Dept - or to sabatoge the standing orders - as did the photodocumented performance art of Abu Ghraib, for everyday examples). It isnt necessary for the artist to be cognizant of the effect the artwork may have over the long run, its meaning (probably impossible anyway, broadly speaking), or to even know they are making art! Regardless, we contribute to a thriving social evolution by offering unique or specialized information (art) to be interpreted, consumed and digested to feed the community. Even crap has good nutritients!

My point is (sorry to get carried away): we are all bugs in a dish. Our only advantage over bacteria (and they have many advantages over us) is that we have more options. Exploring options in our own humble ways - through art-making and/or art-career-making and/or at least the art-of-survival - and sharing our options in order to feed each other - is what I believe we are doing HERE.

Jim

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Apr 7, 2005 8:36 PM
  Reply

I wish I could give more time to the posts of late but I'm busy preparing for another show...

Two thoughts, Jim. (And thanks for reminding me about the bacteria.) I do think even "superficial" communication has its place in an online community such as this. Chit chat can grease the wheels and move things along that would be accomplished with a handshake and eye contact in the "real" world. There is a fundamental impersonality here that has to be overcome to build a community.

Secondly, someone else I know has used the analogy of a signal flare to describe their art. To shift the focus from long term or culture wide influence of art, what I think is often overlooked is its ability to serve as a flag or marker for other. You create work of a certain style/quality and put it out in the world. The vast majority of people walk by without a second look, but that one chosen stops and looks hard. Your image sticks in their mind until they're forced to seek you out. On some deep level, there is a resonance. Each of you then brings other connections and exchanges information/inspiration. In this way, specific networks of like-minded individuals form. And it is these communities, empowered by their deep connection, that I think can influence the broader culture.

Of course, in these days of mass media and consensus reality, it's possible this is being short-circuited. Instead of passionately diverse communities exchanging information, there are 30 million people passively receiving this week's American Idol.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Apr 7, 2005 8:44 PM
  Reply

Reading back up further this page, it seems I'm repeating myself a bit with the chit chat. But I think the idea of the signal flares ties into some of the earlier comments on the broader purpose of the community. Quite relevant, really.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: Apr 8, 2005 5:51 PM
  Reply

RPW wrote:
> Is part of the question how do we
> create some kind of non-restricting structure to an
> ocean of artists?

That already exsists. It's just free will. Are controlists seeking to organize after natural dynamics rather then experience them? Fear the uncontrollable?
I like your water analogy. Community being the ocean, I wonder if artists would rather be the rivers or the rains. The curent, the surface, the tsunami, all great metaphores.

Hello to Jim. I met you at Artrujillo2 some years ago. Good to read you.

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: May 27, 2005 1:09 PM
  Reply

I'm sure many you have seen this article/interview with Clea Felien which is posted on this site. Being a newbie, I found it interesting, particularly after reading the comments on here. Of course I just stumbled upon it while googling. I personally feel a sense of connection just having this site available to me. Haven't met anyone personally yet, but I already feel part of a community of sorts.

http://www.mnartists.org/article.do;jsessionid=F56626D2FB32B6411CC62C3D79F4D9C0?rid=3240

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: The Value of Community...
Posted: May 27, 2005 1:24 PM
  Reply

Kathryn, one of the quirks of the forum software is that it cuts off the last letter/number. When you post a link, add a space and then a period. That seems to work.

http://www.mnartists.org/article.do;jsessionid=F56626D2FB32B6411CC62C3D79F4D9C0?rid=32409
.

Replies: 18   Pages: 2   [ 1 2 | Next ]
Back to Topic List
Topics: [ Previous | Next ]