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Topic: Feedback on Articles
Replies: 1,148   Pages: 77   Last Post: Dec 6, 2005 8:40 PM by: jaime longoria

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Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 27, 2005 1:38 PM
  Reply

If I remember,

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 27, 2005 4:21 PM
  Reply

And just when we were having fun with road trip stories...

I just got on in time to leave work for the day. I'll be back later.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 27, 2005 6:58 PM
  Reply

> Anyone read the article "Critical Unity in Critical
> Times"?


Yes.

Do you believe that criticism, as Lear
> posited, is as elemental as the art itself?

Nope.

It seems
> that without art, there could be no criticism?!

You are mistakened; there is no art and it is not being criticised!


How
> can critics cut through the "effluvia of political
> and commercial bullshit" when they are political
> animals themselves?


Backstroke?

And if not for commercials, Lear
> might be a shoe salesman on Atlantic Ave., in
> Brooklyn.

Maybe he was in a different life, just that!

Does, in the end, bullshit carve through
> bullshit? Or just add to the pile?


Actually it blends; just like paste paint.

>
> Anyone know the numbers of combined readership of the
> major art magazines?

Silly boy, nobody reads the articles; they just look at the picture and memorize the captions!!!

Probably less the one percent
> of Americans buy and read these periodicals, the
> critics themselves and those directly or indirectly
> involved in the industry.

Very few artist in minnesota work as hard as you and I; you can't call it an "industry", better to call it a theraputhic self healing-over process!

>
> Take this site, for instance, please, somebody, take
> it. Just kidding, but, we seldom discuss the
> articles. And when we do, the things asked or
> commented on are treated, at best, lightly in some
> cases, with disdain or are ignored.


I never take you lightly Bob!!! You are my favorite Right Winger on the Web. ( Big Smooch)

I asked, if my
> memory serves me right, where a particular weird idea
> like "the dying bourgeois" class comes from, or
> something as such, I can't remember exactly what
> someone wrote a year ago, and nothing, silence.

Anybody that had anything to say about it died! Bob everyone is now discribed by "Generation_____".

>
> If these "articles" are so damned important, and
> critics need to be recognized and paid for their
> efforts, and the efforts are vital to the arts, then
> there should be on the part of the authors, at the
> least, a condescending response written in a
> comprehensible "Dick and Jane" language for us morons
> to digest. Otherwise, critics are merely writing for
> each other, to feather their perceptions, to fill out
> their resumes, to step the next ethereal plateau of
> the useless.

Just like us Artists huh?

with love
coyote infinity
chicano artist de minnesota

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 27, 2005 8:05 PM
  Reply

Bob, all compelling points. First, I don't "agree" or like everything I see, but one man's junk is another man's art. That is simply how I view it. I remember snickering as a kid when I went on a "field trip" to the Walker and again as an adult when I saw a brush sitting next to a short stairway to the next gallery. It was titled "Bip". Herein, I find it "interesting" but, "not my cup of tea". I have also found myself part to other such conversations/debates involving literature. Just because I don't quote Shakespeare or any other literary great, doesn't mean I'm an idiot like other such "intellects" would like me to believe nor am I going to read it or profess to like it just because it's a classic. My point being is perhaps the same as Bob's, I don't need to be told what to appreciate or talk the talk to be considered intelligent or in the know. Maybe it's too bad that those in the place to be heard make the choices that dictate to a degree what is "art" . All I know is that I see art every day. I do appreciate the discussion and debate. Turn the tables and exploit "them" for a change. Remember the comment I made some time ago about the "Murphy Brown" episode about Eldin's art opening...anyhow.

I watch Antique Road show occasionally, Recently, a man came in with a portrait done by a homeless street woman, who had died within the last two decades. She was quite possessive of her portraits despite her lot in life and she didn't charge a lot of money. She wanted her portraits to have good homes. So, she's dead, her art is considered a fine example of American Folk, and now fetches easily 3 times what she charged. What is my point,? I hope none of us has to die to gain notariety. I assume you all are talking about reviews and articles on here, of which I've read little to date regarding acceptance at the Walker. I look at Walker as something to earn. I haven't read enough other than comments on here about what it takes to get into the Walker. Maybe it's been presented as otherwise, and for that forgive my ignorance. Hell yes, the exposure would be phenomenal. I don't know Michael or his role but obviously it has significance. I did read one article about Soth. It's does appear to be a love fest of sorts. To me, the right combination is perhaps the personality combined with the art-the art that fits into mainstream yet on the edge. Something that can be 'sold' to the masses in terms of vision and actual dollars. I'm not saying it's right, just what I see.

I jump on here because I read your posts, artists, who have passion. I see your work, I see success and I see art. I appreciate having this venue to explore and share my work for what it is. It may not be perfect, but I'm glad it's here.

As for the ladder John Lennon climbed on, well, I'd prefer to listen to his music.

The storm tonight=another display of the force of nature.

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 27, 2005 9:42 PM
  Reply

And you may be correct,

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 27, 2005 9:47 PM
  Reply

If they refuse you> come to Hopkins where they hang the losers!!!

Let me know the day and you can come over for coffee after Hopkins Arts Center (The HAC) accepts your noble work.

Jaime

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 27, 2005 11:41 PM
  Reply

I keep asking for Miller to write,

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 27, 2005 11:50 PM
  Reply

> And I got my MAEP postcard last week...

Man, how come I'm not on that mailing list? Not that I can ever go, but it'd be nice to know when/what the shows are.

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 2:25 AM
  Reply

http://www.otherthings.com/grafarc/index.html

art$ucks.

Michael Fallon

Posts: 201
Registered: Jul 3, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 7:43 AM
  Reply

edit

Michael Fallon

Posts: 201
Registered: Jul 3, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 7:46 AM
  Reply

edit

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 8:56 AM
  Reply

Hey Bob, I thought the forum was all about meandering thoughts, streams of conscious intelligible or otherwise. Wow, it's amazing I can even think at this time of the morning. I'd better get some coffee before I hurt myself. You do manage to get people talking! Back later.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 9:55 AM
  Reply

> Kathryn, hello, again, my meandering points are the
> thoughts that pop up after I read the articles, and
> other effluvia issued from on high, some of which is
> particularly unintelligible. Such as the comment
> made by a French dude, Philippe Vergne, (someone, by
> the by, whom a certain woman artist wished to meet in
> a bygone article), that American culture was run by
> "Cartesian logic" (Descartes to the peanut gallery),
> you know, the guy who said "I think, therefore I am"?
>
>
> Stuff like that, being able to sit in the funk-haven
> Nordeest Modern, and think-speak yer way through
> pot-roast, with wine, clarifies the position for
> Minnesota artists. I and you and Jimmy and Ray and
> Gabe, and literally tens of thousands Minnesota
> artists, artists who actually grind through years,
> maybe painting, maybe not, are, in fact, the butt of
> much derisive laughter, I'm sure, of those in power
> positions. That's one of the smaller predicaments of
> life.
>
> And why do we need these details of the lives (?) of
> these curators anyway? I guess to keep them up where
> they can do their unintelligible work. Why would an
> artist hope to bump into, or send slides to Philippe?
> Well, she probably knows that if "he" places her
> work in the Whitney beeee-in-alley, fame and fortune
> await.
>
> The whole scene, as I begin to see it, is not real.
> I can't believe that any artist promoted by any
> curator, or to a lesser extent, any critic, isn't
> selected without an eye to the career of that very
> curator. If she/he picks the "wrong" art, it's the
> end. So, many of the choices appear going along to
> get along. I never see anything risky at the WAC.
> Predictable.
>
> And I got my MAEP postcard last week, and whad-a-you
> think was on the front? You guessed it. A
> self-portrait dolly, naked, with black nylons, and
> her thingees showing. Again, predictable. This is
> what I expect, shocking, repetitive to banality,
> nudity. Next thing you know, someone will start
> painting their penis. And a curator will "discover"
> this work in, you guessed it, a foreign country,
> after an extended six month hiatus, and bring it back
> to "shock" the rubes.
>
> One of the VACUUM (sp?) contributors during the
> "political MAEP show" last year mused at the lack of
> "shocking" content. And I thought, "Really?" Would
> he be able to identify "shocking" art considering the
> stifling atmosphere of the academy? Of course he
> couldn't because the shocking art was staring him in
> the face, and he dismissed it with, you guessed it,
> harsh criticism. There it was, the bulldog piece,
> not that it was a fine piece of art, mind you, but
> finally something that shocks schmarties. And they
> dismiss it, shocking ideas, in art museums.
>
> I keep asking for Miller to write, "Death of an
> Apparatchik" and I'm amazed that a schmarty doesn't
> ask why. Of course the apparatchik is now dead, but
> it would make a shocking addition to the resume of
> any playwright. However, artists cannot do this
> work, yet. They are yet too close the permanent
> revolution. Maybe in a hundred years.

Thanks for saying the thongs I have been saying for the past couple of years. I guess they are more acceptable from a white artist instead of a brown one.

I have been removed from the MAEP mailer list! Is't it funny!

The nude is back. I too have started to paint nudes; nude tractors, shovels, tools, I even getting ready to try nude barns, wish me luck with curatorial mob when they have to shudder on my "nudes".

coyote infinity

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 10:05 AM
  Reply

At last a good clean and clear review:

Kim Surkan
Kim Surkan is a writer on performance and art around Minnesota.

Kim I love you!!! Come to my next show and slice it dice it and make it cool!!!

coyote infinity

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 28, 2005 11:20 AM
  Reply

Bob, I'm ready to meander.

>The whole scene, as I begin to see it, is not real. I can't believe that any artist promoted by any curator, or to a lesser extent, any critic, isn't selected without an eye to the career of that very curator. If she/he picks the "wrong" art, it's the end. So, many of the choices appear going along to get along. I never see anything risky at the WAC. Predictable.

Sure, who wants to be without a job. Has it really stopped great art from being discovered? Not in my opinion. I understand "predictable" is disappointing. I also see "risky" works that are predictable-as you pointed out I see here about the predictably shocking nude dolly. As Gabe pointed out in a previous discussion/critique of a gallery exhibit where he felt the work was contrived to fit into the exhibit. What would you consider shocking as I don't know what the bulldog piece looks like?

I sometimes feel painted into a corner when I begin to self-analyze. Do I create something I love or do I manipulate it just enough to fit in with the hope that it will be more widely noticed? Will my seemingly normal mainstream piece be perceived as contrived because it fits into the mainstream? Maybe my mistake is that I don't criticize enough. I never thought I'd make money or have fame or fortune pursuing my art. Again, maybe that is a fatal flaw that will keep me from ever achieving it as such. Sorry, getting a little off the subject here.

Money doesn't buy character or class nor does it necessarily "buy" good art. I see great pieces all over the place; on here, small towns and big cities. I agree, it sucks that we don't see more diversity in the highly visible venues. At least I see it around the city at various galleries. Maybe that's just not good enough.

Do you feel that on the whole we’re mindless members of the proletariat - buying into the predictability thus churning art out much like a factory? Does it all really look that much alike thus making it predictable? Maybe at craft fairs but I don't believe it to be true. Either that or I have no eye for art whatsoever. Not that it matters. And what makes a good “eye?” I say all this somewhat tongue-in-cheek because reading artists’ posts in here I don’t perceive anyone as being mindless, therefore why would anyone’s work reflect that.

And then there is the point Jaime raised some time ago: the problem of excluding because your work is classified based on your gender, race or sexuality for that matter.

Ruminating over pot roast and wine sounds pretty good right now. To hell with em if they're laughing-do you really believe that? I’m curious. My art may not be particularly bent, shocking or otherwise but it's mine, so let them eat their cake.

And so, the art at the Walker is predictable.

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