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Topic: Feedback on Articles
Replies: 1,148 Pages: 77 Last Post: Dec 6, 2005 8:40 PM by: jaime longoria

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Replies: 1,148 Pages: 77 [ Previous \| 1 ... 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 \| Next ]

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 29, 2005 2:42 AM

> > With funding evaporating, Play will become more
> > costly and Work will be more defined by the
> Quality
> > of the Work.
> >
> > coyote longoria

Artists, as far as I know, have often been "liberal" for a long time, and often played roles in revolution. Sedated artists now fondly ponder grants and careers in art. A capitalistic trick. I don't think funding the arts or having a career as an artist is bad, but its become what an artist "is". Dollars. Soft money art. Its difficult to talk to a lot of artists without money being the axis of the conversation. Its business. The art of selling out as an artist. How much money can you be dependent on to carry on with your work.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 29, 2005 9:07 PM

I'd like to think it more about consciousness, really. We create art to have an effect on consciousness. Bring it joy, emotion, new thoughts, creative combinations of allready advanced notions.
I'm finding it very difficult to carry on with my work.

Pay to play eh?

william hessian

Posts: 75
Registered: Jul 6, 2004

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 4:30 AM

But is it not worth it?

Money is such a corrupt phenomenon nowadays. I'd rather trade my chickens for some paints, or whatever. Instead I just heard numbers into accounts, adding and subtracting, its really kinda silly.

Art isn't silly. It brings some of the sanity back to the world. I try to avoid talking about money with other artists, although i agree its nearly unavoidable. I'd do my work no matter what price i have to pay (short of death) and if i can be clever and have it work for me, then all the better.

Art is worth any price, doing it, and experiencing it. If this culture wants to make it expensive, grunt and accept it, we know its still worth it.

William

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 7:40 AM

> But is it not worth it?
>
> Money is such a corrupt phenomenon nowadays. I'd
> rather trade my chickens for some paints, or
> whatever. Instead I just heard numbers into accounts,
> adding and subtracting, its really kinda silly.
>
> Art isn't silly. It brings some of the sanity back to
> the world. I try to avoid talking about money with
> other artists, although i agree its nearly
> unavoidable. I'd do my work no matter what price i
> have to pay (short of death) and if i can be clever
> and have it work for me, then all the better.
>
> Art is worth any price, doing it, and experiencing
> it. If this culture wants to make it expensive, grunt
> and accept it, we know its still worth it.
>
> William

BillyArt is a "brand". Just like Cambell Soup. The soon you get that "Idea" the soon you can take control of the course of your "marketing". If you blind yourself, then "BillyArt" gets tossed out with the trash.

In Art the more you know about history the better. Look up Andy Wharhol. And you clearly see the "power" of marketing.

For an Artist with personal morals and vlaues, the challendge is to not let the "Marketing" take control of you.

Art fairs are great for Artists until they realise that thye are really "out door decor markets" and to be successful financailly you must stay close to the decorating trends.

Look at Sam's work evolve; ask the hard question; is his working following "trends" or is he still out to "found his own school of art" ?

( I am rooting for the Sam School)

coyote infinity

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 7:43 AM

>
> Artists, as far as I know, have often been "liberal"
> for a long time, and often played roles in
> revolution. Sedated artists now fondly ponder grants
> and careers in art. A capitalistic trick. I don't
> think funding the arts or having a career as an
> artist is bad, but its become what an artist "is".
> Dollars. Soft money art. Its difficult to talk to a
> lot of artists without money being the axis of the
> conversation. Its business. The art of selling out as
> an artist. How much money can you be dependent on to
> carry on with your work.

I have come to believe that Artists are neither Liberal nor Conservative. They are "tall grass in the wind".

Yes it is a sad thing that money is what they talk about. For me Art was never a "career" . It has always been a mission of the spirit.

coyote infinity

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 11:46 AM

Its still worth it, we continue. I will grunt and accept it when everyone is on the same level playing field. In the past, art has been even more inaccessible to the poor. Schools, libraries, supplies, ect... Another way it is about money.

I'm not trying to be overly righteous here, I wanted to be a comic book artist up until 17 or so. Still do sometimes. But it is difficult to stand by ones integral core beliefs and market art. The sway of the market, those trends and such. I am understanding this "mission of the spirit" in relation to art more. I think that the fact artists can be swayed is usually due to a constant assessment of new information with less prejudice.

I am finding it difficult to carry on with my work also, breaking rocks all day. I'm actively thinking my way through it though. I think its time to draw...

Are you out of supplies, Ray? Maybe I have or know of a surplus somewhere...

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 12:06 PM

The old saying has it that when bankers get together, they discuss art. When artists get together, they discuss money. This is not a recent phenomenon, it's always been this way. Michelangelo bickering with the Papacy over payments was not the exception but the rule.

Money can be a corrupting force, but it is not the only one. Fame, complacency, righteousness, among others, have claim to their fair share of souls as well.

Personally, I have no problem with money. It lets me buy more steel. And I have no problem with other people earning money. They're not taking anything away from me. I do have a problem with bad work being rewarded in any fashion, monetarily included. But for me this is more a moral than aesthetic issue, if that makes any sense.

And Jaime, I just had my second sale in 4 years last week. I'm proud of that and don't feel my work is suffering in the least for this *incredible success. I'm always trying to make better work, and I leave my accountant/publicist/manager hat buried deep in the drawer when I'm working. Besides, you can't "sell" work like mine, you can only put it in a position for the chosen few to experience it.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 12:54 PM

> The old saying has it that when bankers get together,
> they discuss art. When artists get together, they
> discuss money. This is not a recent phenomenon, it's
> always been this way. Michelangelo bickering with
> the Papacy over payments was not the exception but
> the rule.
>
> Money can be a corrupting force, but it is not the
> only one. Fame, complacency, righteousness, among
> others, have claim to their fair share of souls as
> well.
>
> Personally, I have no problem with money. It lets me
> buy more steel. And I have no problem with other
> people earning money. They're not taking anything
> away from me. I do have a problem with bad work
> being rewarded in any fashion, monetarily included.
> But for me this is more a moral than aesthetic
> issue, if that makes any sense.
>
> And Jaime, I just had my second sale in 4 years last
> week. I'm proud of that and don't feel my work is
> suffering in the least for this *incredible success.
> I'm always trying to make better work, and I leave
> my accountant/publicist/manager hat buried deep in
> the drawer when I'm working. Besides, you can't
> "sell" work like mine, you can only put it in a
> position for the chosen few to experience it.

Although I like you a lot as a person. You are dead wrong about your work. Your idea to found a "Sam School of Art" is the right idea. You do need to bring out the "marketing gonk" and business planner to lay down a strategic plan. You have made so very good "adjustments" to the "form" of your work without losing the "intent" of your esthetic. This others can learn from you.

But unfortunately you do need to get into the "Art Business"... Now might be the right time. The Gallery owners are moaning over the whole mediocreness of what "the art scene" have to offer.

I think you should come to town and have dinner at my house, bring your mom and dad and wonderful wife. We can have some cool mexican/tejano/Japanese food.

Coyote Infinity

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 1:11 PM

> You are dead
> wrong about your work.

How so?

I don't think I'm as far out of the "art business" as you think I am.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 5:05 PM

> > You are dead
> > wrong about your work.
>
> How so?
>
> I don't think I'm as far out of the "art business" as
> you think I am.

""you can't
> "sell" work like mine, you can only put it in a
> position for the chosen few to experience it.""

You have the product. You just are not addressing the marketing of it.

It is not a problem, but life would be easier if you would just 'market study' the problem.

Jaime

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 5:17 PM

Does the successful marketing of one's work require an artist to affect a "persona?" I was just reading a bit about Thomas Kincaid and his efforts to "involve" his buyers in the purity of his "artist's" persona.

I don't dispute that I need to work on my business/marketing savy, but neither do I want my work to be bought by someone that was "sold" it. I want them to be compelled by a deeper force to want to own it. That's what I mean by putting it out there to be experienced by the right people. But I do think that educating people about my work can awaken them to a greater appreciation of it which may cause them to want to own it.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 30, 2005 7:25 PM

What about Sams Art Cards? Thats pretty savy. I have a sweet memory of being at the Black Forest Inn with Sam, Lauren, Gabe, M.Fallon, Glen Gordon, Ann K, and Patricia Briggs. And Sam passed those cards around. I still have my limited edition "deck" of 5 or so cards. It's a good memory.

Gabe, supplies being food, i'm turning into Mary Kate Olsen over here. Supplies being paint, I just found my long lost oil paints (Yuri gifted) last week. I had hidden them in a run down soap factory closet so I'd remember where they were. Then I didn't remember. But I have them now so...... game on? I don't know. I'm feeling the zine scean about now. I'd maybe rather sell some noise tapes thru PeddlingRecords.
But you know me, this is stuff i'll never do from present condition.
I have to move ASAP. Money or not.
Consciousness outpaces financial development.

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 31, 2005 1:40 AM

I still have my Sam cards too. I'll keep those. I don't remember much of the bar scene besides visuals. I'm totally deaf in one ear, and partially in the other. Had fun though. That's funny you're thinking about the zine thing too, Ray. I'm trying to get a freind to do one with me. It would fulfill my comic book desires and more. I'll keep my eye out for food hook ups. I had one for awhile but too many people are on it. I recently pulled my oil paint out, but am short on its insistance of larger chunks of time.

I would say Charlie Kraft sold plenty of work with the help of persona.

And for the record, long past it sounding broken, through out history, artists with little to no resources have been totally or partially unable to fulfill their ideas in art. At least admit the truth, that if some did not "have", they would not do art to the degree they do. Some people have more from the get go than others, and it can be a privelage. It offers one more options. If one is respectful of others and uses their resources wisely, I don't think much of it. But when one has money, and flaunts it, and refuses to admit their trespass on our backs, that is push come to shove. I have met people that think it is weak of the lower class to complain of higher classes reaching their goals because of more resources. Like they are using the argument for a crutch. Wrong. Its time for some truth.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 31, 2005 7:38 AM

I think the art card are a good idea for a collective of artists to put out and not just one person. Easier too if they were centralized in a city rather than spread out.

It is true that many of the key players in the history of Art have been independantly wealthy. This has allowed many with little or no talent to rise higher than they should. It has also enabled them to create work with little or no appeal to anyone since they don't have to sell it. They are free to move the discourse in the direction of their own "purity" and disparage art that others like and buy. Perhaps this also drives down the quality of "popular" art.

But this is an example of the inherent unfairness (i.e. shityness) of life. They are not necessarily thieves, and people of all classes display the full range of moral failings common to man.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 1, 2005 11:44 AM

My dear friends welcome to the world of Chicano Art. But I will say this to you; every dog has his day. You need only be faithful to your Art.

Cinco de Mayo is comming. I am scrabbling to find a venue to "give back to the community". The "Money" means nothing. I have come to a conclusion that what I do as a Chicano Artist de Minnesota is the "most cutting edge art" done in Minnesota today because it is relevent to your own path with Art.

You need to accept yourselves and make more art, more furiously and let Minnesota see you.

We, in separate actions can and will change Art in Minnesota.

"Jaime"

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,174
Registered: Jun 16, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 31, 2005 1:40 AM

Reply

I still have my Sam cards too. I'll keep those. I don't remember much of the bar scene besides visuals. I'm totally deaf in one ear, and partially in the other. Had fun though. That's funny you're thinking about the zine thing too, Ray. I'm trying to get a freind to do one with me. It would fulfill my comic book desires and more. I'll keep my eye out for food hook ups. I had one for awhile but too many people are on it. I recently pulled my oil paint out, but am short on its insistance of larger chunks of time.

I would say Charlie Kraft sold plenty of work with the help of persona.

And for the record, long past it sounding broken, through out history, artists with little to no resources have been totally or partially unable to fulfill their ideas in art. At least admit the truth, that if some did not "have", they would not do art to the degree they do. Some people have more from the get go than others, and it can be a privelage. It offers one more options. If one is respectful of others and uses their resources wisely, I don't think much of it. But when one has money, and flaunts it, and refuses to admit their trespass on our backs, that is push come to shove. I have met people that think it is weak of the lower class to complain of higher classes reaching their goals because of more resources. Like they are using the argument for a crutch. Wrong. Its time for some truth.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,464
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Mar 31, 2005 7:38 AM

Reply

I think the art card are a good idea for a collective of artists to put out and not just one person. Easier too if they were centralized in a city rather than spread out.

It is true that many of the key players in the history of Art have been independantly wealthy. This has allowed many with little or no talent to rise higher than they should. It has also enabled them to create work with little or no appeal to anyone since they don't have to sell it. They are free to move the discourse in the direction of their own "purity" and disparage art that others like and buy. Perhaps this also drives down the quality of "popular" art.

But this is an example of the inherent unfairness (i.e. shityness) of life. They are not necessarily thieves, and people of all classes display the full range of moral failings common to man.

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