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Topic: 5. Institutional involvement?
Replies: 18 Pages: 2 Last Post: Jun 21, 2005 12:40 AM by: Ray Rolfe

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Colin Rusch

Posts: 1,435
Registered: Oct 16, 2002

5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 16, 2003 11:21 AM

The full question is:

Do you think the state or any other institution should do more for artists?"

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 17, 2003 3:47 AM

Yes. The State.
I wish the people at the wellfair office would accept being an Artist as a valid form of self employment and would not "cut me off" from a LIFE LINE of foodstamps (EBT Card) because I have not gotten a fucking Job thru their lame ass F-SET program. (please excuse/forgive me)
This dynamic has effectively set into motion malnutrition, degenerative disease, stress, hopelessness, defeatism. It is stifling to creativity when a person is trapped in a foodless survival mode mentality. Irreversibly damaging to life and the progression of their work. How do they expect you to fill out the required 20 (!) Job applications a day when you can't eat!? All this stupid freaking program does for artists is distract them from the activity that is essential to their wellbeing and then proceed to kill them thru denying assistance all together.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 17, 2003 3:55 AM

Yes. Any Other Institution.
I'm sure they (whoever they are) do all they can for artists. However, after years of research I am still unclear of who, how, what and where. The only suggestion that comes to mind for this is that the Bush Foundation could lower their age requirement for fellowships from 25 to 22 or so.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 17, 2003 8:14 PM

I find it interesting that in older Artist Survival books, welfare is described as a viable means to support yourself. Not anymore it seems. I don't know what I think about that. I have never used it myself and am not sure I would if I could. But if the state wanted to fund art programs less but divert that money to providing welfare to artists, I could probably go along with that.

Of course there could be more state/organizational support. But if there were, I'm sure it would just be given out to more organizations/educational programs like it is now. Very little art money ever makes it to actual artists. Mostly, it goes to administrators. Instead of 90 percent going to other organizations and 10 percent directly to artists, I would like to see those numbers reversed. The remaining 10 percent for admin can go to setting up volunteer programs where artists serve their local schools/communities a day a week or something.

Sam

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 17, 2003 10:22 PM

Yes! Right on Sam. I get the feeling that the pie chart always stays the same no mater how much the state funds these organizations. (i could be completely ignorant) It seems if the organizations get more money, they would pay their executive admin more. They may be able to do more for artists as well, but the ratios stay the same. I suppose it depends on the organization. Perhaps the programs and orgs which get funded in these days of cuts, are going to be the ones which demonstrate they exsits as a life line directly to artists, instead of executive pay machinery. But I can see the other perspective as well. Lifestyle issues. Putting the leaders on par with their benefactors and such..... excuses. I wonder what an artist service (rather then self service) organization would look like. Complementary workshops. Artists program themselves rather then influences coming down from on high. What a mess to think about from the "end user" perspective.

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 18, 2003 1:30 AM

Sam, where do you get your 90% / 10% statistics?

Ray, if you are going to advocate that artists should be able to make a living - a reasonable salary commensurate with their education, experience, etc. perhaps - then wouldn't you insist that Managing Directors of arts organizations receive pay similar to that of their counterparts that do similar work in a different industry?

lauren

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 18, 2003 1:38 AM

> Yes. The State.
> I wish the people at the wellfair office would
> accept being an Artist as a valid form of self
> employment and would not "cut me off" from a LIFE
> LINE of foodstamps (EBT Card) because I have not
> gotten a fucking Job thru their lame ass F-SET
> program. (please excuse/forgive me)
> This dynamic has effectively set into motion
> malnutrition, degenerative disease, stress,
> hopelessness, defeatism. It is stifling to creativity
> when a person is trapped in a foodless survival mode
> mentality. Irreversibly damaging to life and the
> progression of their work. How do they expect you to
> fill out the required 20 (!) Job applications a day
> when you can't eat!? All this stupid freaking program
> does for artists is distract them from the activity
> that is essential to their wellbeing and then proceed
> to kill them thru denying assistance all together.

Ray, I too agree that it can be hard to create art when you are hungry (although I invented many creative ways of getting food when I was homeless and extremely poor a few years ago).

Ray, I don't want to sound condescending or contentious - but why don't you just get a part-time job to support yourself and your efforts? You are obviously talented and capable, and even working at a Starbucks or wherever would give you the ability to eat, take care of your health, and gain some self-esteem from being able to finally pay your own way - and your dreams.

Heck, go work at Best Buy and lust over the digital gear and get a sweet discount!

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 18, 2003 1:46 AM

I was actually being generous with those numbers. With regards to the NEA (now, this was post Maplethorpe so it may have been more at one time), the number was 6-7 cents on the dollar trickling down to individual artists. My local arts board last year had a budget around $160,000 to distribute. I believe just over $10k of that went to individual artist grants. This year, with all the turmoil, they have yet to post individual grants at all. I suspect they will be cancelled.

As far as pay levels for admin, they recieve what the market dictates. But we can choose which ones and how many to support. Take the United Way for instance. They are a good charitable organization, but our local director makes $160k a year. Only about 60 cents on the dollar donated makes it to various causes. I personally choose not to support the Unitied Way because of their top-heavy administration. The first rule of any beaurocracy is the perpetuation of the organization itself. I say, use technology and organization more efficiently to cut out the middle-people. I personally disagree with the current organizational system of the arts both in practice and in principle.

Sam

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 18, 2003 2:56 AM

I was suspecting this was the reason Steve Deits was cut even though the Walkers New Media department was the first in the nation. It was the innovation and model. I think maybe the "new media" is so powerfull that it's a threat to the structures of a status quo hierarchy. With diminishing funds and forward thinking visionaries like us hanging around, they may be afraid technology will cut them out so they logically stall it's development. I know I'm bitting hands here but none of them are feeding me so what do I care.

And yeah I kinda agree with you Lauren that successful directors should have money comparable to successful artists. But not when the director is only holding the position to justify its existence. I belive the artists are the real leaders.

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 21, 2003 9:35 PM

Yes. City of Minneapolis, donate your wall space and paint, and I will die trying to fill it. Plus, feed me.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Sep 22, 2003 1:52 AM

I wonder at this all. Will it work? It is just information, or are we setting in motion energies beyond our comprehension towards the realization of these goals? Probably both hmm.
I would love the "city" to feed me as well. I feed it. It would be an intelligent city to return the favor.

Louise Dengerud

Posts: 51
Registered: May 9, 2002

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Oct 1, 2003 2:15 PM

Institutions, hmmmmm.

What a bad place to look for help.

Government, a worse place to look.

We need to privatize - we need to become corporations that gain from other corporations involvement in what we do....we can not sit around and wait for the government or city to feed us. We have to find a way to feed ourselves. This is a country where the independent is encouraged, the self sufficient rewarded and the best way to do that is to at the least stop trying to rely on institutions. If not abolish many of the so called helpful institutions that are supposed to be giving us space and time, now.

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Oct 2, 2003 12:47 AM

> Institutions, hmmmmm.
>
> What a bad place to look for help.
>
> Government, a worse place to look.
>
> We need to privatize - we need to become corporations
> that gain from other corporations involvement in what
> we do....we can not sit around and wait for the
> government or city to feed us. We have to find a way
> to feed ourselves.

While I am definitely in support of financial literacy skills for artists, I also believe that we as a society need "art" to exist in counterpoint to mass communication/mass culture. I can't help but imagine that the privitization/corporatization of art will turn out mass produced, impersonal, non-offensive, corporate art. This is unacceptable to me.

> This is a country where the independent is encouraged, > the self sufficient rewarded and the best way to do
> that is to at the least stop trying to rely on
> institutions. If not abolish many of the so called
> helpful institutions that are supposed to be giving us
> space and time, now.

I strongly but respectfully disagree with you here, Louise. Yes, we do live in a country where our rhetoric supports independence and self sufficiency, but our institutional arrangements support privatization, deregulation, and a market economy, leading us to look to privitization to provide magic solutions to complicated social problems. Which work to undermine these ideals while inhibiting the ways in which we think about equality.

I also believe that art and artmaking can be used for social change (several studies confirm this - just heard about another one again on This American Life last week), and that all people should have access to art in their lives. Public and governmental institutions that provide this access should receive (in my opinion) public support.

lauren

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Oct 12, 2003 1:03 AM

Institutional involvement now please. we have a lot of work to do today people! We must form collective agreement where paralel practice overlap to empower and quicken each others efforts. The institutions know who they are. Please see this and understand your power and place.
I will be working on the GREAT LAKE CENTER (aka OLD SEARS BUILDING ON LAKE STREET) RFP UNTILL DEADLINE.
Time is of the esence and I will need all the help and creativity I can get for the next 2 days. If only to be historical. I'll never know if I don't atempt this so IT'S ON!

See other posts, call your action people

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: 5. Institutional involvement?
Posted: Jul 2, 2004 3:00 PM

I was so much more passionate last year. This is a great conversation in time.

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