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Topic: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Replies: 349   Pages: 24   Last Post: Mar 1, 2006 7:27 PM by: Ray Rolfe

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Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Mar 29, 2003 4:40 PM
  Reply

I love this you guys! I have had many laugh out loud experiences reading thru it. While it was completely innocent and no disrespect was intended, I can't help but imagine Stuarts confusion as comical when he did a search for his own acronym and got hit with our art. And a fortune saying "Only the mediocre are always at their best". YEAH! this amuses me to no end. I'm still chuckling about it. And a classic retort about art censorship from Coyote! Oh you guys are going to love the found sound audio clip I'm going to post as soon as I figure out how to plug a tape player into this computer.
chow
Ray

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Mar 29, 2003 4:46 PM
  Reply

oh yeah,
>What about meeting Tuesday April 1( our fools day) Name a coffee shop near you I will come, and we can work on what ever.

Jaime<

SURE! I name Diamonds Coffee. It's in the Thorp building at 16th and Central ave. (Birthplace of Art-a-Whirl)
I'm waiting to hear from the photographers so we will have a paparazzi.

Colin Rusch

Posts: 1,435
Registered: Oct 16, 2002
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Mar 30, 2003 4:34 PM
  Reply

Hi Everyone,

Sorry for posting this later than I hoped. I am sure you can all relate to trying to fit two lives in one. Without further ado…

I wanted to put a few things out for everyone as part of my response to the editing profiles issues, questions of insiderism, and the effort to transform public institutions. mnartists.org is an interesting, important, and timely project for the arts community. I want to start with a few basic bits of information.

First, mnartists.org grew out The McKnight Foundation’s intention to positively impact the economic well being of the arts community, i.e. making it easier for artists to live their lives as artists.

Second, The McKnight Foundation partnered with Walker Art Center’s New Media Initiatives. This is an interesting group. They both a curatorial department and an active creative group, making multimedia based art. There are not a marketing group, a service organization, or purely a technology group, they are an art-making and presenting entity.

Third, the arts community are in the midst extremely difficult times. We are in the midst of a fight for public funding. Programs and organizations are disappearing. Even more frightening, as Chris Osgood from Springboard for the Arts and the State Arts Board reminded me recently, is that we have not begun to see the impact of the massive losses in private foundation resources. Chris mentioned that the foundation cycle is about three years long, i.e. the losses suffered in the recent past will influence funding for at least the next three years. The extensive infrastructure in Minnesota that supports the arts will be transforming over the next few years.

The first two points are essential to understand what mnartists.org is and how it is grown. This project is a partnership between The McKnight Fonudation and Walker Art Center, specifically New Media Initiatives. I mentioned in the Dialogue forum that I am approaching my work as an art project. But, I am not the only one. From its inception, mnartists.org has been an art project. Yes, mnartists.org is providing practical communications tools to artists, venue for presenting work, and opportunities for networking, socializing and engaging their art practice, but this mnartists.org at its heart is art.

There is an interview with Steve Dietz, curator of New Media, on the site where he discusses New Media and mnartists.org. There are a couple of interesting points.
"AK: How does mnartists.org relate to the other Web projects you work on?

SD: One of the significant things about the network is the two-way nature of the communication it makes possible. What's been important to me about mnartists is its self-organizing potential . . .

AK: Ideally-- like the Web has been . . .

SD: That organizations like Walker and McKnight can help in the process, but that mnartists creates itself by the interaction of its participants..."

Read the full article at http://www.mnartists.org/article.do?rid=14227. I think this statement is significant for everyone using mnartists.org. This project is being facilitated by a collaboration between McKnight and WAC, but the girth of it is created in and by the arts community.

I want to note a couple of things here. First, mnartists.org staff don’t know what this project will look like yet. It is dependent on who participates and how they participate. Second, this statement points to the organic development of the project. We are not trying to present the community with complete resource or service up front. We are trying to initiate movement in the community through providing an opportunity for ongoing interaction online, i.e. an online hub for the arts community across the state. The end will hopefully be people working in the arts doing their/our work more insightfully, effectively, efficiently, and cohesively.

This bit about facilitating movement is near and dear to me. Two primary questions for me as a movement artist are "What is movement?" and "How is movement relevant in today’s world?" My response to the first question is movement is the transformation of relationships. These transformations can take many forms whether it is limited to human physicality or manifests itself in conversation, writing, image creation, how organizations and/or institutions interact with each other, etc… My role in this project is to facilitate movement within the community that ultimately leads to the increased value and compensation of art and artists in our communities. It is an attempt to find answers to the second question.

One of the answers that is ringing loud and clear is the need for an increased value by society at large of art and artists. Just as important though, there needs to be a more appropriate ways to value the arts. There is a need in the arts community for a cultural movement. We need to engage our communities and leaders in the realm of belief and values. The tricky part of this is that we live in a society that values individualism and tangible, material things as much as anything. So, we are presented with the dilemma or translating the importance of the arts as a social endeavor and what are often intangible, yet absolutely knowable, practices and experiences and into terms of dollars and numbers of people. There are many examples of projects that succeed in doing this. Yet, as artists and people who engage in the arts we understand that the long term impact of single moments and images often cannot be translated into such terms nor assigned numeric values.

Part of the insight and importance of mnartists.org is that we are simultaneously making art, demonstrating the tangible value of art making practices, and providing much needed tools and services to a group of people. Second, we are exploring the myriad possibilities for the relationships between funders and the manifestation of projects. Third, we are venue for the arts community to meet and do their work while creating a venue for people all over the world to learn about, appreciate, and support the arts in Minnesota.

Now onto the situation in Minnesota… As a community we are in the unenviable position of preparing ourselves for bad situation that is getting worse in terms of arts funding. It is imperative that we find ways to preserve essential resources and make sure we position ourselves to continue the health of the arts during this time and afterwards. Last, week I was at one of the State Arts Board’s town hall meetings. There was plenty of infighting between the Majors and smaller organizations. Yet, there was a pervasive sense that the arts are essential to our communities and that we need to cooperate to ensure the health of the Arts. How this happens is for us as a community to determine.

As it pertains to mnartists.org, the situation of scarce resources and the complexity of developing a project on an ongoing basis so that it can continue to be flexible, relevant, and effective for its intended audience is greatly benefited by your sensitivity to the context in which mnartists.org exists as you work with us to make this project happen. Raising the issue of the role of the administrator as well as community standards for discourse is important and now is the appropriate moment to address those questions. Lauren, yes, it is a balancing act, but one we purposefully created and happy to work with.

All right, that is enough for now and this is a first draft. So, please let this stuff sit for a minute and respond. I can continue the conversation and the work of enriching the Minnesota arts community and all of your art making practices with you in a week.

Colin

Lux Lumen

Posts: 42
From: n/a
Registered: Jan 31, 2003
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Mar 30, 2003 5:06 PM
  Reply

edit


Message was edited by: Lux Lumen at Apr 1, 2003 8:15 AM


jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 2, 2003 10:49 AM
  Reply

> oh yeah,
> >What about meeting Tuesday April 1( our fools day)
> Name a coffee shop near you I will come, and we can
> work on what ever.
>
> Jaime<
&gt;
&gt; SURE! I name Diamonds Coffee. It's in the Thorp
&gt; building at 16th and Central ave. (Birthplace of
&gt; Art-a-Whirl)
&gt; I'm waiting to hear from the photographers so we will
&gt; have a paparazzi.
sorry to have missed the opportunity to meet. Lets try again.
Please call me;

952-935-4717

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 4, 2003 10:33 AM
  Reply

Given the response and concerns of the MAEP "people" I believe it would be wise to seek a different destination venue for the Minnesota Mediocre Proposal.

If we remove it from the MAEP destination, then I can participate more directly and without interference(in the context of performance piece).

I ( coyote) would like to do this at this time.

As Ray is acknowledged as the acting chair of the committee and as he has charged ahead and done some wonderful work, would it be possible to convene in real-space to formalize an organization?

If there is no interest from the parties that have participated in this performance to this moment; I would like to solely "posses" Minnesota Mediocre as a personal property( copyright and trademark ownership).

If you feel you have a claim to the "property" rights, then please post here and we can go from there. ( I do not intend to become rich from the exploitation of the idea; it is only that it will be easier to manipulate the idea if it is artistically "owned" by an individual or small group.

with a feather up my nose
coyote 256

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 13, 2003 9:33 AM
  Reply

Maybe the idea should be owned by a percentage based on the amount of work put into it. Concepting is a real job, by the way. For the record, I have no part in MN. Mediocre other than making fun of it.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 13, 2003 5:46 PM
  Reply

That takes us back to the question of how to quantify work. Do you calculate by time? hours spent in service? Square feet? or volume? Meaningfulness? Then how would you value meaningfulness!
And who is this chair? I thought I already told you I'm in no way associated with mediocrity. Thats captain homeless' department.
By the way, I feel sorry for beautiful people.

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 13, 2003 6:03 PM
  Reply

Square feet of course.

Personally, I have come to the most disgusting realization of my life. That is that there is no way out of not making money off art. Its just that way.

Prepare for a hostile takeover.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 14, 2003 11:05 AM
  Reply

A friend of mine just had to and still is dealing with a mess of misunderstandings and mis-communications between people equally committed to a group venture that suddenly made money.

The harsh dialogues now revolve around conflicting ideas and attitudes and none of them is willing to work together. None want to acknowledge that the true root of the discord is the contested devision of the resulting loot.

I asking each of you who feel they made a contribution to the developement of the idea of Minnesota Mediorce to stake a claim into the real property "pie" that is M.M.

Reasoning:
The first thing that comes to mind is:

coyote comes up with $500.00 to have T shirts made.

@ $3.50 (includes screen set up) per shirt ,there are 144 shirts on hand, a dozen go to "promotion"(gifts to nexus types of people) leaving 132 shirts to "sell",
another dozen is used for volunteer sales persons.

Leaves 120 for sales @ $10.00 per shirt
Ideal sales of 100% equals $1,200.00 adjusted for real sales of 60% equals $720.00.

How do you divide the $250.00 gross profit?
Who pays the taxes?

If the initial $500.00 is reinvested in more shirts @ $2.50 per shirt giving 200 shirts to sell again, with a 45 % real sales rate.(200 @ $8.00 per( second run shirts sell at discount)) equals $1,600 ideal and 45% real who gets the $720.00 gross profit? ( the base stock(shirts not sold in run) and initial investment now serve to perpetuate the run on the shirt with no new capitalization.

And this is only the T shirt idea without a nonprofit organization.

Imagine this:

A funding proposal is made to set up and run a 6 week exhibition at the Mall of the America; It takes three months of full time work for three organizers @ $2500. per month or $22,500. They need temporary office and phone service and web presence @ $200./ph. $500/web per month or $2,100. Fees for assorted services( photos, press, posters, mail)
ballpark $10,000.

$35,000.00 right off the bat and put in a Fiscal agent charge of 15% you get to $40,250.00 to put on M.M.

Very doable by the way!

Now suppose you take this thing into the 'Mosaic" program, you need Libility insurance on top of this, Say $3,000.00

$45,000.00 in front of hungry unpaid artists to put on a show of Minnesota "Hotdish" art?

To go on from here we need people who understand this "fun" thing turns into work as soon as you try to make it real. And remember people want to be treated fairly once money shows up.

M.M. is a very hot idea. The business people I have spoken to think it has awesome marketing potential(vis a vis the Saints; a clear understanding of the self effacing nature of the Minnesota Pyschique)
the problem for me is how to keep faith with each of you as this thing becomes a real thing that spits out money.

Again if you feel you helped create M.M. please state you claim so that no one feels they got ripped off when it takes off.

Jaime

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 14, 2003 11:48 AM
  Reply

> That takes us back to the question of how to quantify
> work. Do you calculate by time? hours spent in
> service? Square feet? or volume? Meaningfulness? Then
> how would you value meaningfulness!
> And who is this chair? I thought I already told you
> I'm in no way associated with mediocrity. Thats
> captain homeless' department.
> By the way, I feel sorry for beautiful people.

Good question and it speaks to the making and selling of art. How does the Art dollar get broken up?

If you show in a commercial gallery you may get 50% or .50 of the dollar. You(or you supportive other) funded the creation of the piece by buying the material
and providing the overhead for its creation. If say you keep costs of materials to 15% of the sale, then you have a 35% return, and if you kept all overhead costs to 20% of the sale price you then have a gross profit of 15% of the sale price.

This is what you are really gaining in the sale of your work. 15%.

Are you a self sustaining artist?

If 30 % (15% net profit and 15% labor(you) and overhead) of your total annual sales is equal to your total annual costs of living then you are a self sustaining artist.

say you spend $24,000 per year you need to sell about $80,000. through the galleries.

If you sell everything directly( like art fair people; then 55% of your total sales should equal your total costs of living.

say you spend $24,000 per years you need to sell about $43,000.00


Setting the value of an artists time:

If selling $80,000.00 per year then

80,000 divided by 10 months of working time equals a compensation rate of 8,000.00 per month; given 21 days of work per month equals $380.00 per day. Which yields a billable rate of $47.61 per hour or $50.00 per hour

If selling $43,000.00 per year then

45,000( rounded for clean numbers and luck) divided by 10 months for a compensation rate of 4,500.00 per month: given 21 days equals a $215.00 per day.
Which gives a billable hour of $26.87. Or a $25.00 per hour rate.

The average between these two rates is $32.50 or $35.00 per hour.

If you volunteer to work for a nonprofit, this is the rate you should use. If you work on a project this is the rate you should use.

If you are "employed" you should be paid at about 50% of this rate depending on "ranking" in job category.

Creative property: negotiated by type and paid either as a quit on royalties of as a percentage on the application of the property.

Say the idea is M.M.
on a T-shirt it could be a $500. onetime use fee or a 6% royalty(limited definition here, actual contract are rather complicated)on gross sales.

Is this enough food for thought? Or should we have an aspirin party.

Jaime

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 14, 2003 5:11 PM
  Reply

Yes! This is great information. Thank you. No headaches at all. I've done many equations to that effect. Starting with an end in mind, sell how many, at what rate, to make X amount needed for survival, then sustainability. Kidding aside, I might as well speak to the responsibility of being a co-conceptualist. I am, I will. The pie chart will become realized as we work. And with the proper equipment (conceptualist cell phone?) I'm ready to work.
I'm going to bike around Harriet and Calhoune now thou, so I'll be back this evening in a new mode.

~Ray

Minnesota Mediocre

Posts: 22
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 14, 2003 5:42 PM
  Reply

Hi everyone.
I'm a new artist here. I wanted to tell you I own all the copy rights! I wrote the last 3 Tom Clancy Novels and all the White Strips songs! And I KNOW Ray. Don't listen to him, he never created a thing! Only kinda artist he is is a con-artist! And he's a TRACER! Son-of-a-gun can't draw worth a nickel!
Yours,
M.M


Message was edited by: Minnesota Mediocre at Apr 17, 2003 4:11 AM


Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 14, 2003 7:16 PM
  Reply

Relevant to the discussion on economics... I read an article a while back that discussed the economics of art. I will try to go back and find it to check the validity of the source, but it discussed a survey of fine artists (excluding craft). It turned out that at any one time, there were only 800 people in the country earning a living solely by their art. Half of those were able to make a living for the majority of their professional life, the other half were profitable for 4-5 years due to the fashionable nature of their work.

How do you like those odds?

Sam

Minnesota Mediocre

Posts: 22
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Re: Minnesota Mediocre: An exhibition of self satisfied Art and Craft
Posted: Apr 17, 2003 4:49 AM
  Reply

I love those odds. I'm in the 1% club. I continually sell because I'm consistently mediocre. And as we know from Rays fortune, Only the mediocre are always at their best.
Speaking of your little friend Ray he has asked me to post this sound clip for you. At first I wouldn't do it. We have a sort of Matisse and Picasso thing going on. But I have decided to do it because he mentions my name a few times. And I have much more Artistic integrity then him.
Yours,
MM

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