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Topic: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Replies: 52 Pages: 4 Last Post: Feb 12, 2004 6:36 PM by: Kai Boots

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J.B. Cantu

Posts: 70
From: South Texas
Registered: Apr 5, 2003

What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Jul 15, 2003 3:17 AM

I am curious to hear what books you all would suggest that would help me expand my knowledge about art... particularly in the field of art theory/philosophy, art language and or criticism etc. I am trying to find a suitable book that would do a good job of breaking down some of the complexities of the areas i just mentioned. I just bought air guitar by dave hickey , art criticism by terry berret as well as artspeak by robert atkins. I am considering buying some books by danto and greenberg but i am not sure which ones i should get. Basically what I am going for here is this.... I want the best book that would aid me in describing/ interpreting/ judging and intellectualizing any art work that I view... more specifically two dimensional/paintings. A book that would better help me put the visuals into language in an articulate and creative fashion (criticism). If there is any book out there that you all know of that you all think would help me out in these areas most notably the last one please mention it. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

X

Posts: 372
Registered: Jul 5, 2002

Posted: Jul 15, 2003 4:29 AM

Kai Boots

Posts: 6
From: earth
Registered: Sep 23, 2003

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 23, 2003 11:55 AM

Uhg! Uck! Blah -de- blah BLAH! Hey sweetheart, your pretentiousness is showing. Just in case you are seriously asking , here's a thought, go out to your nearest bookstore (good luck in south Texas) and look through books that catch your fancy. When you find one that's interesting enough for you to spend money on, buy it. Take what you need from it, then go back and do it again. Simple as that. Nobody can tell you what you're missing. Only you know that. So, please quit trying so darn hard to be deep and just be.

Wake me when you have a relevent question or statement that wasn't pulled out of your butt to make you sound intelligent.

love,
Kai

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 23, 2003 5:02 PM

Welcome, Kai. Thanks for stopping in. But there's really no reason to react so negatively to J.B.'s question. I have no doubt it was offered sincerely to garner some friendly advice. Your suggestion to find books of interest is a good one. I think it's always a good idea to trust your instincts. But sometimes instincts are not enough and a desire to know more about the current state of art outside of oneself can take hold. I think that is what J.B. was getting at, though I could be wrong.

Sam

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 23, 2003 7:28 PM

It was still pretty funny though.

Yeah, sometimes a guy just needs some direction. But then again, it's all to easy to neglect your ability to teach yourself. Thats the most passionet way to learn. Follow yr instinct. That said, your instinct was to ask other asumably more versed people what the good info sources are, so (not that I know anything but) I would sugjest something like a dictionary full of visual terms so that you can invent your own ideas of language....I'll look for you ... one moment please..
OH! that didnt take long. BINGO! J.B budy, I have found the site! http://www.artlex.com
<<<<art dictionary for artists, collectors, students and educators in art production, criticism, history, aesthetics, and education.
Welcome to ArtLex. You will find definitions for more than 3,300 terms used in discussing visual culture, along with thousands of supporting images, pronunciation notes, great quotations and cross-references.>>>>

Did I just score two points or what!?
~Ray

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 23, 2003 9:25 PM

The Artists Handbook of Materials and Techniques
I think the fifth edition is still the newest. Its more technical but definately gives you knowledge to judge artwork with, in my opinion.

J.B. Cantu

Posts: 70
From: South Texas
Registered: Apr 5, 2003

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 24, 2003 5:08 PM

Thanks for the help Sam, Gabriel and Ray.

Message was edited by: J.B. Cantu at Sep 24, 2003 5:14 PM

J.B. Cantu

Posts: 70
From: South Texas
Registered: Apr 5, 2003

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 24, 2003 5:12 PM

Wow kai you brought this one all the way back up from the dead to bash me.. how nice. I feel special. Let it be known that Kai was the first person on this site to remind me of how cruel the world can be when someone is sincerely looking for help.

I'm not sure why one would be in opposition to my post here. It was clearly not intended to bash anyone. It was simply released with all the best intentions. Look I see this site as well as some others as a wealth of knowledge, a pool, a network for other artists to tap into. I have taken part in this and some of my questions on here are only a small part of that. Sams right... I can only go so far with intuition (i use this a lot in my work)... but i care to also remain relevant with contemporary society in my work. I care to be able to defend it with language when the time come. I don't want to settle for the "oh i painted this because i felt like it" kind of response. So i feel in order for me to be up to par with current standards in art vocabulary i would have to look outside myself to learn. Its as simple as that. I ment no ill intent what so ever to anyone on this site and so im sorry if someone found my post offensive. Soon after I posted this someone responded and gave me great help. I went to the other post that was mentioned about books and looked through it. I let this post fall by the wayside because I simply didn't give a sh*t about it... i should have deleted it. Also my point is not trying to be deep my point is to keep on learning about art to help my art. Pure and simple... and if thats a problem to anyone then so be it. Thanks for all the help that everyones provided so far. I do plan on asking more specific, obscure questions in the future not dealing with the cliche "what is art" sh*t. Again thanks to all the people who care to help.

Message was edited by: J.B. Cantu at Sep 24, 2003 5:19 PM

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 24, 2003 11:04 PM

Here's a book I think you might find helpful. It's called "A Fine Disregard" by Kirk Varnedoe. Not very technical but a very readable overview of the modern art movement. I was sad to see he passed away recently at the not-so-ripe age of 57. Anyway, it's one of my favorites.

Sam

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 26, 2003 4:09 PM

> Uhg! Uck! Blah -de- blah BLAH! Hey sweetheart,
> your pretentiousness is showing. Just in case you are
> seriously asking , here's a thought, go out to your
> nearest bookstore (good luck in south Texas) and look
> through books that catch your fancy. When you find
> one that's interesting enough for you to spend money
> on, buy it. Take what you need from it, then go back
> and do it again. Simple as that. Nobody can tell
> you what you're missing. Only you know that. So,
> please quit trying so darn hard to be deep and just
> be.
>
> Wake me when you have a relevent question or
> statement that wasn't pulled out of your butt to make
> you sound intelligent.
>
> love,
> Kai

When I was very young in South Texas my grandfather would wake me very early to hear the day begin. He taught me to listen. He explained the life was devine. It's sound were music. As the sun rose he pointed out the beauty in everything. "See it boy" and he pointed to evry limb and leaf of the orchard and to the breath of the animals in and out to the pens. " See what most poor bastards never see."

My Grandfather went on to be a garderner at a complex of colleges in Southern California. At the end of each semester he gathers books throw out by the students; he brought those on the subject of Art home to me. He brought home "highliters" as well.

I read alot about Art mostly Art history. I learned how to use "highliter" to isolate the really important ideas.

One day as I prepared to go to College my grandfather had me accompany his to "work". He took to Fray Dinning hall and we sat infront ot the Orosco mural; " tell you have read". I cited everything impartant about the piece and it's history. He laughed at me and said " does all that reading help you see the painting and what it says?"

He went on to show me the painting as he knew it; I was humbled. He saw more than I knew.

In south Tejas Canuto Gil learned to "see" better than his grand son learned to read.

coyote infante

Jean-Claude VILLAREAL

Posts: 32
From: Minneapolis-Uptown
Registered: Mar 26, 2002

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 27, 2003 7:39 PM

Hi Jaime
I have to say that was a good, really!! good point you made here... at least for an artist to be a good artist, you DO need to REALLY see things that most people take for granted in life such breathing. Yet, I think it would be hard for someone in THIS century to succeed as an artist, unless you tons of money and tons connections around the world... To be a successfull artist, one needs the books as well.
How many alive poets make a real living as a full time poetry writer. I can only name one that comes into my head right now... Maya Angelou...
The "grandfather" in your story is kind of the Poet of the arts... He sees things as a poet see life. But "his Grandson" see things as a scholar. In this present world, at least for now, if you wanna make sure you are "loaded" with everything you need to succeed, I think one needs to be a scholar AND a Poet all in one.
What evryone else think about this stuff??
Or is it me who is trying to reassure myself that I should go back to school and complete my BA degree in Fine Art??
Can anyone help on this???
JC
artdesignjc@yahoo.com

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 29, 2003 11:57 AM

> Hi Jaime
> I have to say that was a good, really!! good point
> you made here... at least for an artist to be a
> good artist, you DO need to REALLY see things that
> most people take for granted in life such breathing.
> Yet, I think it would be hard for someone in THIS
> century to succeed as an artist, unless you tons of
> money and tons connections around the world... To
> be a successful artist, one needs the books as
> well.
> How many alive poets make a real living as a full
> time poetry writer. I can only name one that comes
> into my head right now... Maya Angelou...
> The "grandfather" in your story is kind of the Poet
> of the arts... He sees things as a poet see life.
> But "his Grandson" see things as a scholar. In this
> present world, at least for now, if you wanna make
> sure you are "loaded" with everything you need to
> succeed, I think one needs to be a scholar AND a
> Poet all in one.
> What everyone else think about this stuff??
> Or is it me who is trying to reassure myself that I
> should go back to school and complete my BA degree in
> Fine Art??
> Can anyone help on this???
> JC
> artdesignjc@yahoo.com

Now would be a good time to go back to school and get a BA. The students loans are so "cheap" that you come out ahead using "future money" to make art than to use current dollars.

Although why anyone would want a "career" in Art is a mystery to me; Only one in ten Art students goes on to work in a capacity as an artist. "Serious" artists are often self supported for decades before they "earn" a living from their work. Think Van Gogh not Picasso.

As to the question advanced by Cantu; we are just into this Century; we can expect a critical reevaluation of all of the concepts and truths of the last century. It takes a writer at least a year to get to press. It maybe that we need to wait a few years for the really important "writing" on Art to arrive on the book shelves.

The current "financial drought" will "kill" some of the 3500 Artists on this website. This is actually a good thing. We have too free of a definition of that word. In other cultures there are people who practice the crafts of an art form but do not acknowledge themselves as "Artists", that they reserve for individuals who excel at the practice of the "crafts". We should do the same.
It may mean that we only have 350 artists in Minnesota and 3150 art enthusiasts. This would surely solve the art funding problem. It is up to the Art community to bring the idea of social maturity to it's own circle.

I think that only the serious artist keeps asking the question of his/her own work; is it Art?

coyote infante

Danny Smith

Posts: 182
Registered: Nov 9, 2002

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 30, 2003 7:54 PM

> The current "financial drought" will "kill" some of
> the 3500 Artists on this website. This is actually
> a good thing. We have too free of a definition of
> that word. In other cultures there are people who
> practice the crafts of an art form but do not
> acknowledge themselves as "Artists", that they
> reserve for individuals who excel at the practice of
> the "crafts". We should do the same.
> It may mean that we only have 350 artists in
> Minnesota and 3150 art enthusiasts.

who gets to decide who is an "artist" and who is an "art enthusiast?" is it determined by who gets the grant money? have you received grant money?
it seems to me that this method would simply strengthen/reinforce the status quo. that's the last thing we need. then we have 350 thomas kinkaids...

i'm thinking our "definition" of "artist" is too restrictive.

d/

p.s., we're not in other cultures. we're in our own. believe it or not, that's not a bad thing. let's not try to use models from other cultures. it's a little patronizing, don't you think?

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Sep 30, 2003 10:53 PM

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: What the hell is that? (art book guidance)
Posted: Oct 1, 2003 9:10 AM

We build it everyday. Some kinda mecha of creative consciousness.

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