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Topic: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Replies: 124   Pages: 9   Last Post: Jan 31, 2006 6:30 PM by: Jimmy longoria

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Sarah Peters

Posts: 34
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 8:34 PM
  Reply

thanks all. This provides much to think about.

-sarah

Sandy Agustin

Posts: 9
From: Intermedia Arts
Registered: Feb 20, 2004
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 8:35 PM
  Reply

Ok. Now I'm REALLY signing off.

There was so much here to launch off of.

So, on my SOAP BOX for the National Association of Artist's Organizations....join us in Minneapolis to continue this dialogue. We're hosting a national convening October 20 - 23rd.

Check out our web: www.naao.net for further information or ask Colin too.

Thanks Colin and all. You're brilliant and I learned a lot....Sandy

Barbara Schaffer Bacon

Posts: 17
Registered: Jun 19, 2005
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 8:36 PM
  Reply

Thanks for inviting me. I look forward to going back and seeing what I missed while typing.

PS NATO I saw the Interventionists show 4 times. amazing work! well done!

Nato Thompson

Posts: 19
From: North Adams, MA
Registered: Jun 19, 2005
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 8:39 PM
  Reply

Chears everybody. It was a true pleasure. If I could add to Reggie's fabulous call to arms, it's only that we also just squeeze some interpetability out of the dredges of folks like Habermaas and other social theorists. I think hands on pragmatic language that addresses the concerns of the social being are much needed. Folks that come out of post-modern geography like Mike Davis or David Harvey seem to resonate well for me in that they discuss specific sites with specific battles in the context of an overall analysis of power.

I also think that if there was a really good journal out there that could talk about this in a sexy, fun, compelling and on-the-ground fashion, we could wrestle the insouciant social capital held in the hands of those a-critical folks running the art world. heh heh! Anyone on here want to start one? (PLEASE!)

Peace out everyone. You're all really truly great!

Nato Thompson

Posts: 19
From: North Adams, MA
Registered: Jun 19, 2005
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 8:40 PM
  Reply

Barbara,

Ok. you've got to show me around Holyoke and these projects. OK?

Lesli Smith

Posts: 20
From: MN
Registered: Mar 5, 2004
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 9:16 PM
  Reply

Thank you, Jaime, for your approbation. In stating my approval of Gibney's comments and questions, however, I did not mean to imply in any way that I think funding for the WAC is misplaced. Rather, I see the Walker as an institution that is far more willing than most institutions (and I've worked in public and private educational institutions for over ten years) to evaluate itself and grow its vision.

What I recognize in Gibney's article is something I, too, face on a day to day basis, and that is a well-meaning administration that WANTS to evaluate itself and change (intention-wise, I mean), but still sees itself in a patriarchal role--like the monarch who condescends to make his/her peasants' lives a little better. This sounds much more negative than I mean it to be. I'm trying to use the word "condescend" in the sense that Austen or Scott might have thought about it--as in a self-humbling stemming from one's intent to do a noble or just action. The problem with this "noble" or "just" action is that it is only one-way communication. The person in power determines what is "best" for the community without consulting its members. Interestingly enough, this one-way comminication also describes a problem with the model of "pedagogy" that has recently been brought to my attention in a different forum I participate in for educators. The problem is this: Pedagogy = teacher to student; teacher = expert. Some have proposed that a concept of andragogy might be a more helpful paradigm. I'll include the link here:

http://agelesslearner.com/intros/andragogy.html

I'm still processing exactly what such a dialogic model might mean for my particular age level, but it's worth considering.

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 10:46 PM
  Reply

Actually

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 29, 2005 11:17 PM
  Reply

Well,

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 30, 2005 9:45 AM
  Reply

> It's 7pm Central Time. Let's get started. Who all is
> here?
>
> Colin

You begin by haveing personal integerty. Courage and backbone with respect to the mission of Arts Organizations.
You open your institution's doors to the very same people that put you personally on edge. If you don't, you have already sold out the Organization because you have made the "picante" "mild">and slipped into the institutionalized art product of the season.

To be institutional is to have whored out to the "ambiant" universal political and business interests of keeping "our phoney baloney jobs,..." Mel Brooks in the movie classic "Blazing Saddles". There is no need to villianize the Businesses and Funding Organizations for feeding you. You and your organization need only look in the mirrio and ask yourself why you allowed yourself to "tame" your artists selection.

Coyote Infinity
Chicano Artist de Minnesota

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 30, 2005 9:47 AM
  Reply

> I think I'm here....am I?

You begin by haveing personal integerty. Courage and backbone with respect to the mission of Arts Organizations.
You open your institution's doors to the very same people that put you personally on edge. If you don't, you have already sold out the Organization because you have made the "picante" "mild">and slipped into the institutionalized art product of the season.

To be institutional is to have whored out to the "ambiant" universal political and business interests of keeping "our phoney baloney jobs,..." Mel Brooks in the movie classic "Blazing Saddles". There is no need to villianize the Businesses and Funding Organizations for feeding you. You and your organization need only look in the mirrio and ask yourself why you allowed yourself to "tame" your artists selection.

Coyote Infinity
Chicano Artist de Minnesota

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 30, 2005 9:48 AM
  Reply

> To take up the idea of what is the public sphere: It
> is an often bandied about term, but I love just
> distilling it to parks, sidewalks, random vacated
> lots and civic institutions. Places where the public
> can come together as a civil society.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 30, 2005 9:49 AM
  Reply

> Hi,
>
> This is Reggie Prim, from the Community Programs dept
> of the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis.
>
> In part this discussion tonight is inspired by the
> recent publication of Art and Civic Engagement:
> Mapping the Connections
, a publication in the
> form of a map that attempts to deal with the big
> ideas of "Townsquare" and "Civic Engagement" and
> Nicanor Perlas' book Shaping Globalization: Civil
> Society, Cultural Power and Threefolding

>
> Its great that there's already been some action on
> the topic. I'd like to return to the original
> question at the beginning of the discussion tonight.
> "How do arts organizations, both large and
> community-based, operate in the public domain with
> integrity without becoming tools of business or
> political interests?"
>
> I think this question engenders some additional
> questions like...
>
> What is the public domain? or the public sphere?
>
> How do arts organizations generally act in that
> sphere? What does it mean to act with integrity?
>
> I think there is also embedded in the question some
> notion of co-optation (if that is a word) and a
> notion of power.
>
> Its not as clear as I'd like it to be in my
> head...but those are some of the ideas I'd like to
> address....
>
> Thanks everyone for joining in...especially Barbara,
> Nato and Sandy who have been very influential in the
> development of Art and Civic Engagement: Mapping The
> Connection

You begin by haveing personal integerty. Courage and backbone with respect to the mission of Arts Organizations.
You open your institution's doors to the very same people that put you personally on edge. If you don't, you have already sold out the Organization because you have made the "picante" "mild">and slipped into the institutionalized art product of the season.

To be institutional is to have whored out to the "ambiant" universal political and business interests of keeping "our phoney baloney jobs,..." Mel Brooks in the movie classic "Blazing Saddles". There is no need to villianize the Businesses and Funding Organizations for feeding you. You and your organization need only look in the mirrio and ask yourself why you allowed yourself to "tame" your artists selection.

Coyote Infinity
Chicano Artist de Minnesota

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 30, 2005 9:50 AM
  Reply

> Reggie,
>
> The question of integrity begs clarity on
> institutional values and acting in line with those
> values. How does an arts organization and its
> employees value art making and the art itself?
>
> Colin

You begin by haveing personal integerty. Courage and backbone with respect to the mission of Arts Organizations.
You open your institution's doors to the very same people that put you personally on edge. If you don't, you have already sold out the Organization because you have made the "picante" "mild">and slipped into the institutionalized art product of the season.

To be institutional is to have whored out to the "ambiant" universal political and business interests of keeping "our phoney baloney jobs,..." Mel Brooks in the movie classic "Blazing Saddles". There is no need to villianize the Businesses and Funding Organizations for feeding you. You and your organization need only look in the mirrio and ask yourself why you allowed yourself to "tame" your artists selection.

Coyote Infinity
Chicano Artist de Minnesota

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted: Jun 30, 2005 9:51 AM
  Reply

> >How does an arts organization and its employees
> value art making and the art itself?
>
> Well, its why we are here at all, right? Because we
> believe that art and the active process of its
> creation has the power to launch all of these
> discussions...

You begin by haveing personal integerty. Courage and backbone with respect to the mission of Arts Organizations.
You open your institution's doors to the very same people that put you personally on edge. If you don't, you have already sold out the Organization because you have made the "picante" "mild">and slipped into the institutionalized art product of the season.

To be institutional is to have whored out to the "ambiant" universal political and business interests of keeping "our phoney baloney jobs,..." Mel Brooks in the movie classic "Blazing Saddles". There is no need to villianize the Businesses and Funding Organizations for feeding you. You and your organization need only look in the mirrio and ask yourself why you allowed yourself to "tame" your artists selection.

Coyote Infinity
Chicano Artist de Minnesota

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: the sham of questioning multi-culturalism's excellence
Posted: Jun 30, 2005 9:52 AM
  Reply

> You can smell the racism inherent in funding
> structures that are so skeptical of many forms of
> non-white art practice. I mean it's so transparent
> and a difficult thing to get past. Given that much of
> the training in deducing "excellence" comes from the
> historical pocket of colonialism, it's hard to shake
> it out of contemporary lingo. I think in many ways
> the entire history of art is so riddled with these
> hopeless contradictions, that it might be better to
> use more complex forms of discussing aethetics like
> "visual culture" "pedagogic value", etc.

You begin by haveing personal integerty. Courage and backbone with respect to the mission of Arts Organizations.
You open your institution's doors to the very same people that put you personally on edge. If you don't, you have already sold out the Organization because you have made the "picante" "mild">and slipped into the institutionalized art product of the season.

To be institutional is to have whored out to the "ambiant" universal political and business interests of keeping "our phoney baloney jobs,..." Mel Brooks in the movie classic "Blazing Saddles". There is no need to villianize the Businesses and Funding Organizations for feeding you. You and your organization need only look in the mirrio and ask yourself why you allowed yourself to "tame" your artists selection.

Coyote Infinity
Chicano Artist de Minnesota

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