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Topic: Feedback on Articles
Replies: 1,148   Pages: 77   Last Post: Dec 6, 2005 8:40 PM by: jaime longoria

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Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 25, 2005 4:27 PM
  Reply

That would be a tough one since art is so subjective and highly personal. While I may not like the kind of song one of the idol's choose, they may sing it far better than another contestant. As an aside note, I notice there are very few unattractive people in any of these reality shows.

I realize you can try and categorize the art and judge, but...

It's great you all enter the state fair-to me it's similar although personally I'm not keen on the competition for ribbons. I enjoy seeing all the different creative works and appreciate how that sort of exposure may open new doors. I've known two people who have entered in the past however neither have experienced much in the way of either selling more of their art or increased commissions. What works for some may not work for others obviously.

Jared Reise

Posts: 17
Registered: May 3, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 26, 2005 10:30 AM
  Reply

I am there with you Kathryn. My theatre group reluctantly joined the American Express Ivey Awards for "small" theatres. I mean, we want the attention, but the idea of getting awards for art is definitely subjective and seemingly arbitrary. The only plus side is that the awards are based solely on stand-outs; there are no pre-fab categories. As far as ribbon and monetary awards, I am not sure what that is if there is any such thing, but I guess bragging rights will do.

Papatola's article kinda struck a small nerve with me, and I am not sure why. Is he advocating "star-power" to influence a writer's content? Seedier stuff? If that's the case, then I'd say they are doing a good job of that already. I am not sure about the visual arts, but most theatre art critic I know gravitate towards a name. Can I blame them? Well, not really, but you don't always strike gold with that logic...

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 26, 2005 10:54 AM
  Reply

Michael, I had thought to post the whole article but had a "copyright" hesitation. And distance makes the heart grow fonder I guess...

I understand the objection that art is subjective and difficult to quantify, but fine art is not alone in that regard. Any competition, sporting or otherwise, that relies on judges has a subjective component. Hell, even the strike-zone in baseball is subjective; that doesn't stop people from believing in strikes and balls.

I think the main problem is our general unwillingness in the art community to pass judgement. We seem to have largely given up the idea of good and bad. There is a great hesitation in polite circles to criticize. Instead, if we don't like something we don't say it's "bad," we say "oh well, it's not my cup o' tea but art is subjective."

I think it is a sign of health when judgments run rampant, even irrational ones. How many times have you overheard teens argue about which band was better? They fully identify with their favorite group and their judgment of them. When was the last time you heard teens argue about which contemporary painter or sculptor was the best? I'm guessing never because we don't encourage that type of free-for-all. We think art is too delicate to be criticized by the novice. But I think this creates a weakened art. And by the time professionals rise high enough for their opinion to be of "value", they have so identified with the structure that their assessments are more influenced by consolidating power than pushing for what is good.

Relatedly, I think we in the art community damage ourselves more than any outside forces do by tolerating bad work and bad artists. Instead of ruthlessly weeding out inferior work, we allow the weeds to grow. Finally, they choke off the sun from the actual flowers while our professional gardeners stand around and say to he passers-by "we meant to do that. Isn't it beautiful?" No, it's not. Even a child can see. And if a weed is actually a flower in disgise, the obstacle of negative judgment will force it to grow stronger or die. Health is not allowing everything to grow, health is pruning and cutting back in the service of the excellent.

Jared Reise

Posts: 17
Registered: May 3, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 26, 2005 11:07 AM
  Reply

Sam,

I likey likey. You're right. We are too polite, but as artists we do feed into that "OK, nobody's really better than anybody else. You do what you do, and I do what I do" mentality. Critcism can only make the us stronger, and the weak-willed give up and open a hardware store (nothing against hardware store owners).

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 26, 2005 12:45 PM
  Reply

Jared, I'm all for bragging rights. I'd be lying if I didn't say I'd enjoy the recognition.

The article struck a nerve with me too. Has anyone followed Project Greenlight this season? Due to the miserable box office performance of the last film, they are taking a different direction-one that is more "canned" in my opinion so they can hope to make some money. I agree, there already is enough crap out there. Very few risk-takers any more it seems.

American Idol is a guilty pleasure. I say that and I am a little tired of being shamed for watching a "reality show." I think I like it because it represents what we (or me) want to believe-that we have a chance to be discovered-to succeed.

At least Papatola's article inspired some thought and discussion.

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 26, 2005 12:54 PM
  Reply

Excellent point Sam. I also think it is a condition of living in the Midwest. My life experience living in DC was much different when it came to certain issues. Aside from the obvious lying by certain elected officials, honesty and criticism was far more brutal at the staff level and it did indeed weed out the weak. I miss those days of lively discussion. Of course, I'm not talking about art here. Not having traveled much in these sort of circles yet, I can't offer much in the way of discussion. I'm just getting my feet wet. I can say that I've been guilty of the very thing Sam pointed out-the "not my cup of tea" statement.

I actually wouldn't mind owning a hardware store...

Jared Reise

Posts: 17
Registered: May 3, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 26, 2005 3:10 PM
  Reply

I am working with a director/writer now as part of the Red Eye "Works in Progress" series. It was refreshing to have an evening where we presented what we had, got "warm" feedback (the stuff they liked), "cool" feedback (stuff that was confusing or didn't work so well), and then discussion. I liked the process; because there was a respect for the fact that someone was trying to do something, but the understanding of "everything is subject to be improved upon". No bull, just honest feedback; no egos being bruised, because that's what it's about- works in progress.

I was into "America's Next Top Model" last season. Poor, poor Amanda took 3rd, my fave

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 26, 2005 3:40 PM
  Reply

Jared,

I tuned into that off and on, watched the finale. Geez, could they let go of Keenyah's supposed weight issue?!

Sounds like a great meeting. That is exactly how the process should work!

I recently took a class in graphics design and the task was to come up with a personal logo with the first step being sharing sketches and ideas with the class to critique. Fortunately the class was very small, but we still had a hard time getting into the sharing/critique mode. Once the ice was broken by a very well spoken and respectful class member, it went very well and I think we all ended up having a good experience.

Michael Fallon

Posts: 201
Registered: Jul 3, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 26, 2005 8:53 PM
  Reply

edit

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 27, 2005 10:21 AM
  Reply

> That is, American Idol is a sexy spectacle for the
> masses who imagine they have dreams and hopes and
> desires.

Nice.

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 27, 2005 11:12 AM
  Reply

And the crowd immediately votes

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 27, 2005 12:57 PM
  Reply

I just happened upon this article, on this site, which addresses some of these issues. very interesting.

http://www.mnartists.org/article.do;jsessionid=F56626D2FB32B6411CC62C3D79F4D9C0?rid=3240

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 27, 2005 1:25 PM
  Reply

Working link:

http://www.mnartists.org/article.do;jsessionid=F56626D2FB32B6411CC62C3D79F4D9C0?rid=32409
.

Kathryn Browning

Posts: 414
Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 27, 2005 1:32 PM
  Reply

Thanks Sam.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 15, 2005 12:58 PM
  Reply

> I just happened upon this article, on this site,
> which addresses some of these issues. very
> interesting.

Don't you think?
That that is what is wrong with MN?
Interesting?

That all art is "Interesting!",
the color of my snot on my hankerchief is
also interesting!

But is it "meaningful"?
I mean, so does anyone care about my snot rag?
The patterns, I mean the interesting patterns of my snot on my rag,
the thing I do not way overhead?

Interesting? Very interesting?

I think I'll go do art over seas.

jaime

>
> http://www.mnartists.org/article.do;jsessionid=F56626D
> FB32B6411CC62C3D79F4D9C0?rid=32409

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